Torque Wrench Question
 

All,

I am about to do my first Oil change on my 2001 S. I have a new filter, a new magnetic drain plug and an appropriate oil (purposefully not mentioning the brand or weight :) )

I have a torque wrench for my bicycle maintenance (high end bike and a very nice torque wrench) It is not the "click" kind. The wrench flexes and there is a gauge that shows how much torque you are putting on there.

Do you think this would be appropriate to put 19ft lbs of torque on the drain plug?

Here is the wrench:http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1438719723.jpg

Thanks in advance, John

That will be fine, although you will need a 1/4" to hex adapter

My friend please take that wrench away from your Porsche. The aluminum putty used in these engines is extremely sensitive to torque. IF you can Only wrench on it when it is cold and has not been started that day, obviously oil change is hot. Spark plugs COLD only! Then go to say AutoZone and buy at a minimum their 3/8" in. lb. torque wrench. Then even before you use it on your engine find something tight, set the desired torque you wish to use, then on that test bolt or nut exercise the click on the wrench to be sure all internal parts of wrench are lubed and warm and you are confident in the release point before you use it on your baby. Your car will thank you! And you won't be calling Itsnotanova looking for a new pan!

PS Autozone and Oreilly will loan the tools

Get a click torque wrench
You can get a decent one from Harbor Freight on sale for $10

Now the flaming will begin for those that will say it's a piece of crap and you need to spend $100's for a good one. Yes, if I was a pro, I would spend more on tools. For a home mechanic the HF one is just fine.
I had mine checked against my Indy's really expensive one and it was within 1 ftlb from 10 to 100. Ftlbs

OK. No flame necessary. I will buy a proper torque wrench. I pretty much figured that I would need a different wrench.

BTW, some of the parts that I use this wrench for on my bike cost as much as parts on my Porsche.

Hey JPC763; Please don't take offense. No doubt bike parts get expensive. One of the differences though is the positions you will find yourself in while working on the Porsche may not give you a very clear view of your wrench!! LOL. Personally I have 3, my recommendation to you would be to buy a 20 to 200 in lb torque wrench. This is the range where precision is most critical. Enjoy :cheers:

I use the same type of wrench pictured. Never once had a problem.

You have one of the best performing wrenches out there, the beam wrench.Other than buying extremely expensive, pro quality torque wrenches, the beam wrench that you have (assuming its the right range) is the most accurate of regular guys torque wrenches and will not go out of calibration since all you have to do is bend back the pointy indicator to zero the wrench.

I use my beam to calibrate my click wrenches.

That being said, the click wrench is great because all you do is set the torque and wait for the click. The beam wrench, you have to look at the scale and well, its a pain unless the fastener is really out in the open.

No offense taken. After re-reading my reply, I realized that I did not quote JayG talking about the Harbor Freight model. That is where my no flaming comment came from.

My bike tools are for my bike. I need to amass car tools for my car. Some will be the same, but many will be different such as this.

Interesting that I did actually own a Harbor Freight torque wrench before buying the Park model. I was building a road bike up from the frame and needed it for all of the Campagnolo components. It had such a large range that it was useless on my bike so I had to go ahead and buy the bike torque wrench!

That is a great idea. I can make sure that my click torque wrench is accurate by using my park wrench.

But... How do you do that? How do you calibrate a torque wrench?

I have never thought about it, but it makes sense to couple them together. Ideally they both always read the same torque when you rotate either one.

Exactly, I can't remember what the socket is that couples them together but if you have a good set of 3/8 and 1/2 sockets you'll find it.

As far as adjusting the click wrench goes, I don't know how that works. I just check to make sure the click is close.

Torque wrench
 

Get rid of that thing. Go to Sears and pick up one there. Very accurate, takes a beating and if it don`t the`re under lifetime warranty. I`m one my second one. Tend to drop them sometimes.

You have brought up one of my pet peeves. In my business I work with auto service shops all over the front range. If you go to automotive shops, dealer or independent, I bet you will find 90% of techs don't use torque wrenches on anything, except MAYBE engine internals, but many don't there either. These days most guys use electric or air impacts on everything and if I ask where their torque wrench is some don't even own one. They think because a bolt is tight and not stripped, that is good. Almost everything is overtightened, especially lug bolts/nuts. For things that need to be really tight, like crank bolts, suspension parts or axle nuts/bolts they just use their big 1/2" drive impact set to full torque and hit it until it seems right. Who knows what it ends up at... Yikes.

I know of one shop where EVERY bolt gets torqued and marked. It is a local independent Porsche shop that specializes in race cars and doesn't advertise. In the last month I saw TWO 993 RSRs, two 996 GT3 Cup cars, a 964 Cup car, numerous turbos, and a slew of spec Boxsters. They are doing something right...

A bolt is a bolt. It doesn't matter if it is on a bike or a car. In my opinion, the average bike mechanic is far more careful and meticulous than an auto mechanic, because they have to be. I would also say that beam type torque wrench is just as good as a Harbor Freight wrench. They are very simple and accurate. The problem with them is that they can be tough to use as it is not always easy to see the scale dead on. It would work perfectly on the oil drain plug. The click type wrenches are easy to use, but are also easier to get out of tolerance, especially if you don't zero them after use.

My bottom line is that by using a torque wrench on your drain plug you are already doing better than the vast majority of anyone that you might have work on your car. Splitting hairs about which torque wrench you use is pretty silly IMO.

YMMV

Steve

The craftsman click type torque wrenches have a 1 year warranty. Digital ones only 90 days. Interestingly, a beam type wrench like the OP has comes with a lifetime warranty.

Warranty Information - Craftsman

There are some You Tube tests/comparisons of Harbor Freight torque wrenches vs. the Snap On,Craftsman,others. HF did very well .
My complaint about many modern 'click-type' T-wrenches is the click is very quiet and gentle. Easy to miss & over-torque ! But if you put one hand around the pivot pin ,you can feel the click.
The new beep/vibrate electronic torque/angle wrenches are a great idea but....
Snap On digital torque wrenches - check on Garage Journal for some serious assessments before you spend $300. Significant defects/problems . So far ,I failed to find a reliable, inexpensive ,digital/electronic T/angle-wrench .YEMV.

Good stuff here. The beam type torque wrench is very reliable, and cheap to buy, but it will be impossible to read in (guessing) half your applications, whereas you can hear or feel the clicker reach its target. Thirty years back I bought an HFrt clicker. It fell apart within a week. But I have had good results with most of the tools I buy there. When that wrench failed I bought Crafstman 25-250 lb ft unit and it has never let me down. I always turn it back to zero as advised in the owners sheet. It has never been recalibrated (my bad). With it I tighten 220 ft lb axle nuts. I also have a kd tool 3/8 inch pound clicker and recently bought an HFrt 5-29inch pound unit ( how can you pass ?$10 with coupon).
Items of interest . America Tire here in Vancouver WA has offered to check my big wrench although I have not done it. Also if you google, there are several diy calibration check techniques which hang a weight on your wrench and look at the reading. The cost of calibration may motivate a person to consider replacement, I don''t remember.

BTW, QMULUS is right about fasteners. There is a science and it should not be winged. Basic charts online and elsewhere are available to properly identify the fastener tensile strength, SAE and Metric . If you do not have the mfgr's torque callouts you can measure the shank, read the head (tensile strength) , allow for any lubricant you are using and derive the proper torque setting. No excuse not to do this. And if you are dealing with the TTY (torque to yield) variety of fastener spend a little time understanding what they are and follow the torque/turn sequences if applicable. Your car will thank you

Good enough for.....
 

....the Chaparral Can-Am car:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1450907576.jpg

Hmmm, With regard to drain plugs...I never really thought about it before, but a steel drain plug fitting a steel pan is ?3/4" or ?14mm, or ?9/16" hex head? Anyway, the shank is acutally quite large. But I would not look on a torque table for a setting as I think it might overkill. If most plugs take crush washers it would seem the "first"application would flatten the copper washer and subsequent ones would apply more torque to mate the work hardened washer to the pan. Perhaps (my bad) I do keep using the same flattened washer so the snug torque is higher than any manual callout which may require "always replace." I have had more problem with others' overtightened sump plugs than any of my moderately tightened ones. The motor mounts inhibit vibration loosening. I guess stay with any callout you find in a manual, otherwise experience and judgement. I have found the H Frt "fish tackle box" of copper washers to work well if they fit as drain washers and also brake line/caliper washers.

Just tighten until it strips and back it off a quarter turn your good to go :D . Seriously as others have stated ANY torque wrench will be better then just grunting a bolt/nut tight. There's a special place in hell for tire/wheel shops that use air guns set on stun to install lug nuts ! :mad:

Aren't these considered more reliable than the click types?

Uh, the oil drain washer is a buck or less, you reuse it?

To prove the 19 ft lbs try it with a new copper washer. Then undo it and see if the washer has deformed itself (expected). The next try with the same washer will take a little more. I don't think 19 foot lbs is excessive and may even be a little light. This situation is somewhat like a spark plug torque. These typically take 15-20 ft lbs in an aluminum head, and also rely upon a crush washer. IMO

Jay, Please know I am an old seasoned home hobbyist and some things I do may not be to the letter. For instance, yes, I confess to reusing the same sump plug gasket on my cars for years. I use the drip test. If no drip it's ok. When first starting out it is probably good to heed the warnings in factory manuals about "discard and use only new parts" until you get some wrench time. As noted, however, you will work harden the copper washer each time you reuse it and chase slightly the torque you sense you need (or measure). Without too much cynicism some of guidelines are really ridiculous IMO. Case in point. A tapered steel diff or trans plug (like a pipe thread) will go on indefinitely. Just keep everything clean and do use a torque wrench on these. The friendly Mercedes dealer wants $7 a pop for such a rugged, reusuable plug.

I have both beam and "clicker" type torque wrenches (several clickers in 1/2"-3/8" drive, and one beam in 1/2" drive). I tend to use the beam on any application where torque accuracy is extremely important. As stated here, the clickers have moving parts which can fail or get out of whack and this affects accuracy. (Good practice to store clicker wrench laying flat on the back side, with the torque setting untwisted to relieve spring tension).

I've been able to make the torque setting scale of the beam wrench readable in some "off viewing angle" applications by marking with a sharpie a reference line on the back side. For speed, the clicker the wrench can be desirable. For example, quick tire change.

Another way to speed things up, of course, is to not use a torque wrench. Be mindful that lubricants on the threads can dramatically affect things. If you are not using a torque wrench, you will be more likely to notice when plastic deformation starts. (Which is for many not frequently replaced fasteners, where the torque setting is optimized anyway).

Perhaps we should demystify "deformation" and the effects of lubrication on torque for those who are new to the game. Fasteners are supposed to stretch in order to exert holding power. The tensile strength and diameter of the fastener play into the proper torque. Fasteners which do not have girlie configuration , know as "waisted" can be torqued to the universal tables, SAE and metric. The TTY fasters (waisted, not wasted) typically take torque plus additional rotation. Lubrication of fasteners is tricky. Spark plugs, for instance, in galvanize are already lubricated via the coating in dry state. Many still put a thin "dry"oil film on plugs (I wipe the threads after a tiny drop of oil). Lubrication can cause excess torque to be applied. There are guides to how much apparent torque should be reduced when using a specific lubricant. I hope this is well received and does not irritate experienced folk. Just tell me to STFU if so.