De-snorkeled my Box 5 minutes max
 

Probably the easiest mod yet. I know this is remedial to most of you. I do this for people like me who aren't a true mechanic. Hopefully they can learn from my mistakes and save a few $$$ :cheers:

WHY?: Mostly sound. You can judge for yourelf. Some have claimed increase of HP of 5-7 and moderate Torque gain. I am still looking for some hard proof.

Tools: phillips screwdriver, maybe some paper towels

Difficulty: 1 out of 10 Cake!!!

Time: About 5 minutes.

MY car: 2001 "S" 3.2L 62k miles

Here's the way I did it: You can follow this website as it has great pictures.
http://www.pcars.us/10min-boxster-de-snorkel-hack-t3401.html
1.) Remove screw on driver side air vent and remove
2.) Remove Black(or painted) grill by gently pulling plastic arms forward out of their clips. Be gentle as they are a little fragile.
3.) Grab the long black tube and rock it side to side and pull hard until it comes out. there are no screws holding it in, just a small clip on the inside top of it. You can try pressing the top, but I just yanked it out.
4.) Optional, I sprayed some windex on a paper towel and cleaned out the inside.
5.) Put it all back together and go test drive it.


Projects completed:
1.) Serpentine belt...........$25 Gatorback w/ac
2.) Sparkplugs..................$42 Ngk-Ix-Iridium
3.) Radio replaced............$225 JVC HD50 (BB install)
4.) Tires............................$700 Sumitomo III Local shop
5.) Oil Change/air filter.....$94 catro syntec 10W40,napa gold,K&N air
6.) Speakers....................$143 Infinity Kappa F=4", R=6x4 plate
7.) Throttle body clean.....$5 Throttle body cleaner
8.) De-snorkel..................$.10 A few paper towels

Projects to do:
fuel filter
Battery (spring).

I haven't read anything about losing gains, except an article back in 2005. It was discussing if Hot air would get in and cause a decrease in power. More post have supported it than have condemed it. But as i said in the op, "this mod is mostly for sound".

Now you have peaked my interest that this may be detrimental to mpg and power. I need to do some research on it. I see the potential for power gains as you have less restrictive air flow, but then the other side has merit with their hot air versus cold air theory. :confused:

You are not “losing gains” just losing slight HP and more particularly gas mileage. This mod will also do nothing to change the temp of the intake charge, that would require other modifications. You may want to check the archives over at PPBB, there have been multiple threads on this, all came to the same conclusion, it is not a positive move unless all you are interested in is more noise.......... If memory serves, one of the catch points started when those that removed it noticed a slight drop in gas mileage, which initiated the before and after testing. Also believe is has been covered, ad nauseum, on RennTech as well……………….

So that's what it is
 

Thanks for the post. I always wondered what desnorkeling meant. I like the sound the car makes now. If it improves performance I'm not sure.

The sound after desnorkling is pretty cool, especially at the 3000k range and up. I have read 100's of post in numerous threads and it seems the mpg loss mostly comes from people changing their driving habits to here the new sound of their engines. I have only seen 1 guy who claims his mileage went to 10mpg on a 40 mile trip. I consider that post worthless and without merit as there is no way you will drop 40% to 50% in mileage.

I still haven't seen any concrete data, just opinions. For now I will keep it off as the sound is pretty cool. I do monitor my MPG on every fill up and will report my findings.

Ok, I found this post on here from a guy who dyno'd his 2001 "s".
He found a 5.3 hp gain and 2.7 torque gain.

He owns his own dyno and has great credentials. " I am an engineer, tuner and enthusiast, and have designed parts for NSXs, S2000s, and even factory supported FWD drag race teams. My race program involved many secured world records...but I digress."
http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/9671-finally-dyno-charts-de-snorked-986s.html?highlight=Snorkle

Now, the dyno doesn't test the car under true driving conditions and wind speeds @ 50mph. So take the info as you want. I am still searching for the truth, as I know its out there! :D Most the claims of loss of mpg came from the 987 not the 986.
exerpt "Wow..this is so sad...so much happened on the board while I spent more time beating my poor S on the dyno today. I have repeated the results on 17...yes 17 passes with and without the "snork". The data remains the same. For what it is worth, this mod produces 4.6~5.5whp at high rpms. Whew!"


I am not trying to blindly support my decision. If i am wrong I would be the first to admit it. I just don't take some other guys response of "it felt like i loss power" as a scientific conclusion.

Again, I am still in the wait and see camp. I check my MPG after every fill up. I do like the sound with it off. Even using an inferior dyno, it should give a consistent before and after reading even if they are both high. Enough of that. As I said in the OP, HP and torque gains(if any)are negligible and aren't the reason I did this.

I am glad you brought up the MPG issue, as to me that is way more important than any small gains or losses in hp or torque. I will definitely keep an eye on them over time and report my findings, as unscientific as they may be. I still think most people rev up and wind out through the gears more to hear the noise, which makes sense why they would see lower mpg.

OK, I went and looked up one of the guys that ran the test I watched on the rollers and he sent me the following data on multiple runs, with and without the baffle;

***18 Jul Stock no mods ***
RF-001 258.31 bhp 220.54 ft/lb
RF-002 258.21 bhp 221.92
RF-003 258.44 bhp 221.03

********* 18 Jul De-Snorked runs *****
RF-004 256.95 bhp 217.82 ft/lb
RF-005 256.17 bhp 218.46
RF-006 255.95 bhp 218.91
RF-007 256.19 bhp 220.00

Doesn’t look very promising on the performance side, but it was noisier……

I have no idea about the source of the MPG change, so you could be correct in that it results from "too much right foot"..........

I agree with JFP, in that I think desnorking does make you lose a little power. I was desnorked for a year, and always noticed that at highway speeds over 60+mph, it always felt like I had less power with the snork out. My personal layman's theory is that the snork was designed with the curved, trumpeted opening (which sits closer to the grille opening) to better facilitate airflow into the airbox, giving it a smoother and less turbulent flow into the airbox. With the snork out, there is a void in that area that includes all these waffled edges at the rear section which cannot help airflow into the airbox. Couple that with the fact that the remaining opening after pulling out the snork leaves a straight edge whereas the snork used to have a curved opening, and the flow must be worse than before, IMO.

That being said, ultimately, after putting the snork back in, and feeling like the power had come back at speed, I still really disliked having the snork back in place because there is a remarkable difference in the way the car sounds with the snork back in.... it was just too quiet for my liking, and I soon was back at pulling that snork out. This time, however, after pulling out the snork, I took a dremel to the remaining straight edged opening at the rear section, and sanded it into a curved opening to simulate the curved opening of the snork (and then vacumed out the sanded out bits prior to putting it back together). You can't see it too well in the crappy picture I took at the time, but I now have a curved opening into the airbox. Not sure if it helps or not, but I do love the sound of the car desnorked, and if it means a 2hp loss as JFP shows, so be it...at least I can hear the sweet growl of the intake while I'm going slower, and getting less mileage. :D

Desnorked and dremeled remaining opening:
http://i28.tinypic.com/20s6nah.jpg

I've heard that theory about the snork being placed there to meet the stringent sound limitations in certain countries, but I then wonder why that type of snork tube is inserted in many different types of cars, even domestic ones.... you find them in the older air cooled 911s, in Mazda pickups, all sorts of cars....they all have snorks leading to their intakes. Therefore, I would think that there was a reason for them being there (maybe one function is to further quell sound), but there has to be another benefit to them, no? In fact, I would bet that you could get the Boxster up to higher speeds without even realizing the louder noise of the desnork because the extra growl from the desnork doesn't even come on until after 4k+ rpms really. This is why I don't think the snork is there solely for the purpose of noise abatement.

Actually, it is for noise abatement, and different OEM’s handle the issue in various ways. We currently have a Nissan product in the shop that has two factory options: A really slick cold air system and a large diameter, low restriction stainless steel exhausts system. Because the car came from the factory with these, there are two small decals on the radiator support noting that “the car is not legal for export to certain European countries”, because both the intake and exhaust fail to meet “TUV noise standards”. The non option version of the same car has a plastic box in the intake system with a similar baffle to the one on the Boxster inside of it, if you disconnect the box; you get a pronounced intake “roar”, much like the cold air system has. Interestingly, the optional cold air system, which while simple, is beautifully designed, adds 8-10 HP at the wheels, and the exhaust another 10-12 over the standard stuff, so the addition of these does make a significant difference.

The Swiss must drive the OEM’s nuts with this stuff………..

Cool, then all I have to figure out is a way to block out the waffle voids in my intake area, design a bigger curved scoop, and I'll have put that 2hp back into my car! :D

Intake systems can be funny things, they often respond rather differently than you might expect. We once were running an engine on a dyno cell stand (no car), and made pulls with and without an air filter, only to find it made more power with the air filter in place. One would assume that without the filter, the system should flow more air, but while the A/F ratio remained pretty stable, output dropped. It liked the filter, go figure……………..

wasn't the other reason for the snork to keep debri out? I have heard the lit cigarette example more than once. I noticed the small pan at the front of the snork looks like it is to keep out stuff.

Either way I will do my own unscientific analysis and let you know. I did read boxtaboy's reply on another thread as I was researching it. I can't see how letting more air in a less restrictive manner can cause a reduction in HP or MPG. Oh, well as jeff has said on numerous occasion, this dead horse has been beaten enough. Thanks for the input.

I think if you want to do an unscientific analysis, you can just do some timed runs on the freeway (where the airflow will be important), from 50-90mph, for example, with and then without the snork. That, I think, would be a pretty good measurement of what the snork actually does. Personally, I think you'll find that the snork will help your times, but I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong, cause my snork is out. LOL

Nope, it is a noise baffle. If you really stop a moment and look at the opening in the body with the grill removed and the “snorkel” still in place, a whole lot of stuff can get passed it, so as a debris preventative, it would be pretty poor; you’d be a lot better off with some simple mesh for that purpose………….

http://www.pcars.us/albums/1525_porsche_cars.jpg

http://www.pcars.us/albums/1527_porsche_cars.jpg

No, I pretty much think your wrong on that. The cup on the bottom is to keep debri and water from getting sucked in. Now how effective it is, well thats another question. If you really look at it, its obvious the cup is there for a reason, to keep crap out.

If you guys want to keep going, I have also read the for any increase in air flow your ecm need time to adjust. Just like pedro says when you install his techno flow thing. All the dynos I have seen have been negligible gains and the only one that reset his ecm was the one who claimed 5 hp gain after 17dynos.

Now I feel like I am defending it, when that was not the purpose. Its like one of those highschool debates that you have to take a side you care nothing about. :confused: People have asked about de-snorking and I thought I would try it.

There isn't enough evidence wither way to support a conclusion. I don't race so the HP gain or loss of + or - 2 hp doesn't matter. I would be concerned about mpg loss, but it makes no sense, as common sense dictates that you will get more air flow. The only things I can think of that might go against that is if the snork some how lessened the amount of turbulence, like pedros claim of his thing, and if hot air was sucked in rather than cooler air. I would lean towards the latter.

If you look at the cup and where it sits when the grille is put back in, you'll notice that the two lower slats of the grille are closed off, which means the air leans straight into the curved portion of the cup as it goes in when the snork is in place. In other words, the cup at the end of the snork facilitates air to get sucked into the snork tube. So I think the cup was put there at the end to do just that...help suck in air. I don't think that the function of the snork is really to keep debris or water from entering, because 1) if you poke your hand back there in the hole that is left after you pull out the snork, you will find that the tube path goes up and to the left in the airbox, and not straight to the air filter, and 2) there is a water drain further back in the airbox by the air filter area, so water still would not enter the engine. I think it's in there to faciliate a smooth passage of air from the outside to the intake, while keeping noise levels down.

That makes sense, but what I have read 90% of people also agree that its for debri also. The cup keeps the snork from acting like a shopvac and cleaning up everything that is on the floor. Like if whater puddles before it drains. I stuck my hand up to it before I took it off and it felt like a vacuum hose. Maybe its me it just seems like common sense as the purpose of the cup on the snork.

actually who knows for sure, porsche probably did it to create debates and arguments.

Look at what you are dealing with: Because of where the opening is located on the side of the car (well below the belt line), and because most of the air flow is thru the upper slats in the grill, any debris or water that entered would drop down and be collected in what you describe as a “cup”, directly in front of the opening to the intake system………..hardly seems as a good description for something to prevent the debris from getting into the intake; and if fact looks more like something to help it get sucked in………

It is a noise abatement device, nothing more…………….

http://www.pcars.us/albums/1525_porsche_cars.jpg

This argument ain't worth 2hp! :D Take it out if you enjoy the extra sound, leave it in if you don't care for it. :cheers:

Yep, your absolutely right!! :cheers:

desnorkeled
 

well i guess after much debate and everything else.... it is what, what it is .. gain or no gain.. it's just more sound (noise) !
so to each his own... if you're happy with it (do it at your own risk) if not ... so be it!

Hm- that makes ALOT of sense. Personally, I know I would get lower mpg from trying to hear the intake.

De Snorkle
 

I've been reading this thread with some interest because I tried to de snorkle my '99 Boxster following the instructions you have posted here and couldn't get the snorkle to budge. I wiggled it and at one point had both feet on the car pulling on it but it wouldn't move an inch so I gave up. My mechanic wants me to put in a cold air intake system and he says it should come out if the intake system is to work correctly. All the reading I've done on the pros and cons are as varied as the experiences of the drivers. Some say an HP increase some say not, some say better sound some say your fuel system regulator will eventually compensate for the change and the sound goes back to normal. Although everything I've read about the snorkle goes along with the Swedes getting a knot in their shorts over the noise, and I'm no expert on air induction, it would seem to me that the tube shape of the snorkle would have an effect on air turbulance as the air is forced down the tunnel of it. It may even have the effect of increasing PSI on air entering the air filter box. It would be interesting to really see something definitive on this topic because although it has been widely discussed there doesn't seem to be any agreement on its benefits or drawbacks.

Since a bunch of you have desnorked Boxsters that have the cup - has anyone ever found it full of debris? Seems like a question that bears asking...

There was nothing but dust in the tray when I got mine out. The second time around I grabbed the tray and the snorkle came out so easy I was amazed. I had pulled on the snorkle itself the first time and it wouldn't dislodge. What I've noticed is the car sounds more mellow, there's an intake noise that is missing but the upside is my gas mileage appears to have increased by one mpg. Combination around town and freeway I'm up from 22 and change mpg to 23 and change mpg and on a freeway cruise to Sacramento my freeway miles where up to 26 mpg. also up one mpg. :dance:

The Boxster's unique location for the intake may have an effect on HP losses or gains many have claimed. Unlike a front engined vehicle where the intake system can take advantage of the high pressure area naturally provided by forward motion, the Boxster's side mounted opening creates a low pressure at the intake opening as the vehicle moves forward. I suspect the snorkel places the intake opening at a point closer to the moving air than if the snorkel is removed. This would force more air into the intake system than with the snorkel removed. You can feel this effect easily by driving your car at 60 MPH and opening the window slightly. There is an immediate drop in pressure that you can feel in your ears. The area behind the grill feels the same drop in pressure. The higher pressure that exists at the opening of the intake dictates how much air is ingested into the engine. The odd shape of the intake area, with the snorkel removed, may cause areas of low pressure due to Bernoulli Effect of the moving fluid past the opening providing less air pressure at the intake opening. For this reason, it is possible the engine is getting less air with the snorkel removed.

I read the tuner's thread about the 17 runs he did, and on a stationary vehicle his claims may be correct but may not be correct on a moving vehicle due to the unique nature of the intake opening. A desnorkeled Boxster with a scoop on the side may give better results.

I've had my snork out for a year, and no extra debris in the air filter with the snork out. There's always some dust and small leaf remnants in there regardless of whether the snork is in or out.

2 things that come to mind,
1: How long does it take for the computer to recalibrate to the new flow? could this affect a "before and after" dyno if done right away? The reaon I ask this is I have read about some modifications that raise the MPG but after about a week of driving the computer remaps and the MPG then below the original MPG.
2: Is it possible that the space behind the grill and the leading ege of the snorkel is big enough to slow the velocity of the flow just enough to allow some debris (water?) with weight to fall into the tray rather than a constant high velocity flow going straight into the filter.
Hmmm, makes ya wonder,
Ken

De-Snorkling
 

I've read several places, it takes 100 miles for the computer to recalibrate.

I've also heard the reason for the snorkel and cup are to form the first noise baffle, needed to meet European noise regulations. You notice the snorkel is quite small - smaller than any other part of the intake. If you perform any other mods, leaving the snorkel in place will have an even greater negative effect.

Go ahead, remove it, and enjoy the bark of Porsche WOT!