Service Tech's opinion on replacing the IMS
 

Our local PCA chapter got a tech talk on the IMS bearing from LN Engineering... if/how/when to replace. Do you agree?

EDIT: NO ONE AGREED. Hahaha. I did a complete re-edit after the PCA asked me to take it down while they "negotiated" with HBI Auto. HBI refused to re-edit or discuss in any way LN Engineering, so here is the new version:

https://youtu.be/6cvrGKnivu4

Think the guy is absolutely right with everything, including the mileage of when/if to replace it.

That guy needs to get his facts straight. He starts by talking about LN Engineering, and the points to what is obviously not an LN installation but one of the DOF systems pushed by other vendors telling you (correctly to some degree) what is wrong with it. The he “exposes” some sort of “hidden” LN recommendation about removing the rear seal on the OEM bearing. LN has been a proponent of removing the rear seals on OEM IMS bearings, particularly the non serviceable versions that cannot easily be retrofitted, for years. And while he acts like it is some sort of secret, it is readily available on the LN website, and has been for years. And the LN hybrid bearing balls are not coated with “a ceramic sealant”, the entire ball is made from a ceramic material that is much stronger than the steel balls used in the OEM bearing.

He has a problem with machining a small openings in the bell housing flange for an oil line, as would be done with the IMS Solution; NEWS FLASH: There are literally hundreds if not thousands of cars running around with the Solution with a notch machined into that flange, some with more than 100K miles since it was done, without any problems associated with that notch. And they DO NOT LEAK OIL, regardless of what the speaker says, and they do not flood the IMS Solution with high pressure oil. The DOF may suffer that problem, along with all its other shortcomings, but the LN IMS Solution does not.

Interesting info, thanks!

Two very similar view posted so far then 🤣

Right! �� everyone has a strong opinion

My only “strong opinion” is in stating the actual, supportable facts, not opinions……….

I'm just curious as to when the problems with the new 4.0 in the 718 GTS models will take over online discussions and the IMS discussions will be a thing of the past. Probably never, IMS discussions are just too much fun. I appreciate valid, educated opinions from people who have actual experience with the issues. Thing is some people who have never worked on an M96 or even know what an IMS bearing is have opinions. One idiot at a PCA event told me that he'd never own a Boxster because of the IMS and he'd rather buy a 2001 911 because now they are affordable. The Boxster he snubbed was a 2011. I just shook my head and walked away.

Bore scoring has taken over from the IMS in the 9A1 engines……….

And here I am lusting for a GT4, after having lived through an IMSB failure, and hopefully immune to bore scoring with Nickies in my rebuilt engine!

that tech is a lurp.

Don't know what a lurp is... but that guy certainly wouldn't be allowed to touch my engine.

"Lurp"-someone who may or may not be limited, but certainly acts that way.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Lurp

At about 2:13 he says that the engine pumps oil to the IMS bearing.
WTF?
Does he mean the bearing gets lubricated from the heavy oil mist in the crankcase?
If so, bad choice of words.

there were so many things wrong with what he said, including your point there, that I stopped watching. I'd limit this gentleman's repairs to lawn mowers and maybe an old snowblower.

TTGator, what is the story on the engine on display during the tech talk?
Is it an engine that failed after the mod? Before the mod?
Or was just "handy"?
thanks

HBI Automotive's service tech who spoke at this local PCA Tech event has mistaken the TuneRS DOF "direct oil feed" for the IMS Solution. It is a shame that someone in this position was provided a platform to provide incorrect information to this group and to see it being further propagated on the internet.

LN Engineering does not manufacture, use, or recommend the TuneRS DOF. He does mention using our IMS Retrofit ceramic hybrid bearings, but also incorrectly states he pulls off the grease seal to allow the engine oil to lubricate the bearing when in fact the IMS Retrofit has always used a bearing without a grease seal. As the IMS bearing is submerged in oil, a pressurized oil feed to the ball bearing is not required in our opinion.

The issue with oil volume as mentioned by the service tech causing leaks is a non-issue with the IMS Solution. The orifice size in the journal that feeds the plain bearing used by the IMS Solution limits oil flow and does not cause a measurable drop in system pressure and most certainly does not flood the IMS area with oil as the tech states the DOF does.

He is correct that on a 997 (or any Boxster, Cayman, or 911 from model year 2006-2008) the IMS bearing is not serviceable and indeed in that situation the grease seal should be removed off the factory 6305 non-serviceable ims bearing as this is something we have recommended for many years as preventative maintenance for these engines.

I do need to clarify that he states the incorrect service interval - 50k miles was for the classic single row IMS Retrofit that was superseded by the single row pro many years ago and has not been sold since 2014. Service intervals for all our dual row bearings used in the IMS Retrofit is 6 years or 75,000 miles. However, the IMS Solution is a permanent replacement that uses an oil fed plain bearing and that bearing has no service interval and is designed for the life of the engine.

He also goes as far to say that if the original bearing has not failed by 50k miles that they never do and that is 100% false and could not be any further from the truth.

The tech states that the crankcase is under pressure of one bar which is also completely false - the crankcase is under vacuum. The M96 and M97 engine runs under vacuum at 4-6 inches of h20 column, however I believe what he was trying to say is that since the engine is a wet sump engine and the IMS is located at the bottom of the engine that if there is no grease seal on the bearing that the oil in the sump will lubricate the bearing. And this would be correct and is the reason why the IMS Retrofit has no grease seal on it. However, the IMS Solution requires pressurized oil since it is a plain bearing like your connecting rod and main bearings and would not function without pressurized oil. This does not mean that the IMS Solution is going to leak because it uses pressured oil to lubricate the bearing. That is the furthest from the truth.

The tech does state that it is his job to give 100% of the information but the information he's given isn't 100% correct here.

+1 on what Charles, JFP and others said in their responses. Not just my opinion, but actual verifiable fact - The ‘service tech’ in the original post video is wrong on every important point. And the YouTube thumbnail pic is not even close to a Raby patented IMS Solution install. It’s clearly a DOF fed off the head to an IMS ball or cylindrical bearing. The video is nothing more than a cesspool of dangerous misinformation.

Long time ago, I was hyped like everyone else about the IMS. But my PZ (Porsche Zentrum) always calmed me...drive the car regularly or you will find oil spots on your garage floor, which is known and normal, NOTHING to worry about. They checked it every other year...always good, no need to change or replace it.
And my car leaked since day 1, when it sat in the garage too long.

SO...I threw my worries over board ever since...YEAR 21 and still running. Lucky me?
:cheers:

Link removed. Probably out of embarrassment at having so many factual errors pointed out. With that background, I'd not be too trusting of any conclusions he came to either.

Too many armchair engineers.

For as storied of a history that Porsche has, their engineering blunders are legendary in my mind. No engine builder is perfect, but damn Stuttgart...soy based wiring looms, lifetime sealed bearings (lifetime anything...hah), now ****************ty suspension hardware and weak con rods on an 8k redline application? VAG group as a whole has had a rough go over the last 30 years and I can only hope they do better with electric applications.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

Every….
 

….manufacturer has issues like these.

ALL of them.

Pick any vehicle built in the history of the world, and there is some sort of mechanical issue with it.

As Elon Musk said, ”Building vehicles is hard.”

Look at the Mazda Miata, probably THE most reliable sports car ever built in history.

The 1990 first build of the Miata had a “short nosed crank” that would snap in half. I owned a very early production 1990 Miata and put a Flyin’ Miata turbo kit on her and people in the know were always shocked when they saw my car with 325,000 miles on her with 300,000 of those miles having 12 pounds of turbo boost through her on an all stock engine. Nobody could believe it didn’t blow up.

Look at BMW E39 M5’s with their timing phaser failures, look at the M5 V-10’s that grenade at 50,000 miles, look at the Corvettes with dropped valves, it’s everywhere.

You can’t price yourself out of the market by building the perfect car.

Whatever car you choose will have SOMETHING that is a systemic failure point.

Just learn what those issues are with your target vehicle, and spend the money to fix them.

And then get busy livin’.

^^^^ Well said, tomorrow is not guaranteed :cheers:

Not to mention the new Vette and it’s spun bearings and self opening frunk lid when at speed.

Wow…
 

C8 frunks open at speed???

I haven’t heard about that one.

Fun times!

Yes, early on there were reports of the electronic trunk release activating by itself. They needed a software update to fix but not before a few drivers got a surprise.

:eek::dance::D:D:D

I heard this was related to the frunk button on the key fob, and it was getting pressed while sitting in your pocket.

It was taken down temporarily at the request of the PCA and Jake Raby until things get sorted out with HBI. I also didn’t want people thinking what he said was correct after learning how incorrect it was. I hope to put it back up soon with Jake talking point by point to the errors and her actual helpful information shared.

Lesson....JUST DRIVE the dam car! My 98 has 91,000 perfect miles on it and IF it "dies it dies" it "owes" me nothing.....LOL.

FIY I edited the original post with the link to the newly edited video. I'll link it right here as well to save you some clicking:

https://youtu.be/6cvrGKnivu4