Question on 911 price
 

I hope this type of question is allowed here, but I'm considering going from my 2002 Boxster S to a 1996 911 4S. I've always loved the 993 Carreras, and having an AWD one would be great, especially having been spoiled a bit by my supercharged R32 and the stability of the Box. There is one in my area that has been on sale for a while, and had multiple unsuccessful listings, and I'm wondering what is a fair price for the car. They are asking $55k, and according to edmunds and kbb it should be around $40k. For you guys in the know, please give me some insight. Obviously, I know this is one of the rarest and sought-after air-cooled 911s, but what should I offer to pay for it? Here is a link to the most recent auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AME WA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=170046223253&rd=1,1 . There have been no bids in the previous auctions for $40k or more - I think the highest I've seen was $38k.

I would then need to sell my 2002 S (red, black, black) which is kind of tough in the NW because of the color and weather.

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Unless you absolutely love that year and style, dont trade down years. As a general rule that is. Like, I wouldnt trade an 06 911 for an 85 lamborghini, not a good example, but the luxuries we are used to might not be in that older car. Like I said, unless you love it, dont waste your time. I can sympathise, I love the 73 carreras, super sweet retro styling to me, I will have to wait 30 years, but its all personal preference.

I completely agree - I fully recognize the interior is not there in that car compared to my Box, but it's the exterior styling and love for the 993 "rawness" that's making me consider this. Plus, given my desire to always be pushing my cars, having AWD is a lot more confidence-inspiring than a tail-happy 911 would otherwise be.

Granted, I could get the interior equivalent with a water-cooled 911 (1999-) and for less money but I don't care for the 996 styling much. That's why I'm happy to see the 997s have gone retro a bit. But in the end, I don't mind a raw feel and a harsh ride. I've had worse, the R32 included (with harshness, I mean).

I actually completely disagree. I prefer the more direct feedback and lighter weight typical of older sports cars. I've driven a 911 from each decade and they get heavier, less direct, and more luxurious with each successive year. Even though they are faster in a straight line. The earliest 911, for me, is the most entertaining sports car. It all depends on what you're looking for.

As for price, these things are somewhat regional. Check your newspaper, autotrader.com and cars.com to get an idea of what should be a reasonable price for the car.

I'm with you in that assessment, and which is why I'm looking at doing the 993.

As far as price, there is are only few other 993 C4S models in the area, one is at another local (generally quite overpriced) specialty dealership, they are asking $53k, and another is a private party also asking $55k. Yet another dealership has a black one (and I would really prefer not to have black) and twice as many miles for $40k. It seems to me like the private seller is basing his price on the asking price of the dealers, but like I said edmunds (which has been more accurate in Porsche values for me) takes into account region, color, options, etc. and calls out $33k for this car (KBB is at $40k).

Anyone work for a dealership or have a contact who could steer me to what I should pay for this car? A more expert opinion?

In cases where you have a somewhat rare car like this and with few around, the guides are not very useful at all. I have NOT found Edmunds to be of much value here.

I would suggest you use Auto Trader and use the advanced sort feature to figure out what asking prices are on a national basis.

If no one is listing a car for anywhere near what Edmunds says, you have your answer there.

Assume that the asking is $2-4K over the real selling price.

The 993 has increased in price quite a bit of late. To me, that is simply Porsche buyer nonsense but hey, these car prices rarely make sense, esp. Porsche prices.

Your Box will be hard to sell but you know that.

Good luck.


PS-if that car on EBAY is not local, I would forget it.

me thinks a well maintained low mileage air cooled 911 will be more valueable ten years from now than a well maintained lower mileaged 996 911.

Probably,

But hey, who wants a large vw as a collector car?

Have you ever driven a VW k.g. or beetle?
THey may sound like 911's but no VW sure as heck
drives like a 911/2/928/944/968/914 etc.

p.s.
My buddy just picked a new VW EOS. Two words: NICE!!
Steep at $38K (nevermind the claimed $28K list) for 200 HP
but this car is like nothing else on the road. A real looker up close.

Have you been sniffing too many car cleaner fumes? A VW sounding like a 911??? ;)

BTW - I drove my GF's new Beetle (wanted to see what her car can do on a track, not to mention I've never driven a FWD at an AX before) at an autocross a couple weekends ago and if that's what a 911 sounds like than they have problems...

BTW2 - I actually trophied with her car, granted it was 12th out of 30 something, but I can't believe I trophied with a 4 banger automatic VW Beetle on one of the higher speed AX's I've been to this season (maybe I shouldn't talk about this with such pride as someone may question my manhood...). ;)

Omg .....i was driving home last night behind the same 1996 911 4s in red . Was really nice, i think that i'd trade my boxster in for that in a heart beat....maybe not red, but it looked amazing and i couldnt keep my eyes off of it.

I think he was referring to older air-cooled beetles that had flat 4 engines very similar to what was in a 912 or 356. The new beetle has nothing in common with a Porsche.

I was refferring to the herbie love bug 1970's VW not the new beetle and the old karman gia sounding like an air cooled 911, well sorta, you now what I mean.
I've driven the 'new' beetle turbo thing and its actually pretty nice. I wouldn't pick up a girl for a date in that car but still kind of a novelty.

That car IS local to me - just 5 minutes from my work.

Damn, my Box is in the shop getting the RMS done (which, as it turns out, was an intermediate shaft seal failure, not an RMS problem) and a new clutch and slave cylinder, and already I'm thinking about going the 993 route. Why can't I keep any car for more than a few months????

I'm going to give the suggestion of a national search a shot. Thanks,

Damn, based on doing a national search, that 4S seems to be pretty reasonably priced. There are several around in the $50k range, and even several upwards of $60k. Incredible! However, if I could do 8-year financing like what this dealer is advertising, I might be able to keep my payments the same as my Box. Oh, evil thoughts....

If you sit next to an a/c 911, it sounds just like a old VW, only louder. Clack clacky go the valves. Whoose goes the cooling fan. In waves, the heat comes off the car!


I am not a big fan of the older 911, ie loud air cooled engine hanging out over the back end of the car. Leaks everywhere, lousy physics for handling and primitive engine engineering.

Now, give me an old 912 for "cool" value with no pretense on performance and I am so there.

Looks awesome to me!

8 yr payments and repair costs to. Tires, oil, gas, insurance ..........

Be very careful!!!!!!!!!!

"I think he was referring to older air-cooled beetles that had flat 4 engines very similar to what was in a 912 or 356. The new beetle has nothing in common with a Porsche."

Yes, I was referring to the old air cooled VW, which spawned the air cooled Porsche's. Same design, flat, air cooled engine hanging off the back end of the car.

Same clack clack sound of the engine!

Yeah, I know what you mean... ;)

On the track the Beetle was a blast! It had very neutral handling which is quite the opposite of what I expected. I expected to push through every corner (it had all season tires on it) but by turning the steering wheel hard and long before I needed the car to actually turn (I swear it took 5 minutes for the body roll to transfer the weight), it felt extremely nuetral and stable.

Sure, but really not very different than the Box - also out of warranty, and hell I'm spending $2400 or so on the clutch and intermediate shaft seal replacement right now as it is. That's not even at the dealer, which would easily have been another $1000-$1500 just in labor costs. Tires, gas, oil, and insurance would be right around the same amount I pay now, I would venture to say.

But that raw, primitive noise is what I love about a car like an old Porsche or old VW. It would still be worth it to me. I love to ride in my friend's '86 Carrera and hear that engine going behind you....

"it felt extremely nuetral and stable"

It only felt that way because it had less power than the Lance Armstrong. When the real power comes on, the problems begin.

The 911 is a great story on how to mask/triumph over what is a terrible fundamental design from a handling perspective.

Now, the old VW was very good in snow, but not much fun on a windy day. "Hey, what lane was I in anyway?"

1978 911SC is one of the best 911s I've driven. RAW RAW RAW!

Sammy,

You are such an amazing driver you would probably kick butt in a Pinto !

The sad thing is, you would have probably smoked my Box with your GF's bug :(

Hopefully next year with your expert instruction my times will improve...

( and if I don't keep missing that freakin' second slalom :mad: )

Nick

What has become of you? Here you are driving a car that most reviewers says is a must drive before you die and others have described as better handling than a 911 and you have wanderlust!!

I feel your pain- I don't own any P-car but I am on the hunt and recently (like 24 hrs. ago) drove a 993 and have totally had my hunt dislodged. So here I am getting sucked into the Church of 993 with all that goes with it: visceral, last of the great ones, the true Porsche, not a wannabee- and the rest.

In the last two weeks completed sales are all over the place on ebay- the lowest I could find for c4s was 29K and the highest was 80+k for turbo. I think Edmunds is only a rough guide (very rough) for this kind of vehicle (good for a smart looking used Camry though!). Again this price seems good (of course you are not going to tell them that) if it is a one owner car not bought at auction with all service records and no accidents AND you will do your own PPI. After all that you need to add on the possibility of engine failure (not just with the P-cars but with any car). I think the engine replacement is something like 7-14K. Again just my conservative head.

Which leads me to this-why would you and I pay this for a car when we can get a 06 used Boxster S or Cayman S (minimal options) for about the same amount? Particularly when everyone is saying that THOSE cars are a throwback to the great days of P-car driving and , as one reviewer said of the new Boxster, an "out of body experience with telepathic steering and handling."

Reason- totally irrational and emotional. As one person said, you got to love it.