Fascination With Air-Cooled Porsches
 

Sorry, not a Boxster question, but it has always puzzled me why there is such fascination and enthusiasm for the earlier air-cooled Porsche's. It's certainly reflected in resale prices when compared to later model year water cooled Porsche's. I figure the Boxster community would know the answer.

Thank you.

I figure it is the toys of our youth that we didn't have then that we now can have. Plus the idea of "classic".

Every time I watch a Mecom auction show I marvel at the prices some cars are going for, many I wouldn't want if you gave 'em to me.

I must be old but somehow I have to think that some of those prized collectables will fade from popularity. I think of Lionel trains. Who today among the next generation is going to want them. I remember a guy in the neighborhood who had a whole basement full of 8 foot tall racks of boxed cars and engines. But would my grandson want them today?

Would my grandkids want a '57 Chevy big block? So when my generation passes...

Mike,

I'm not even talking about the classics from the 60's and 70's. I'm looking at the 993 vs the 996. Noticeable price drop in the 996, even though it's a lot newer.

The 996s were made in higher volumes, first of the major transition cars. Crude remarks are still given to the 996, especially the earlier cars over the amber lights.

When you look at the 993 it signifies the end of the aircooled, hand-built cars. None will ever be built like them again. The water cooled 911s are superior in every metric, but fall short in “purity” and rawness.

Do recall that the 964s were once regarded as the ugly stepchild of the 911s. :) Not classic like the G Series, not fresh like the 993s. Today the 964s are commanding higher prices in general than the 993s.

I don't here of as many 993 engine failures relative to 996...

In Porsche's defense they had just started messing around with liquid cooling on a boxer engine for a production car.

For the life of me I cannot understand why they went from a journal bearing to a sealed bearing for the IMS? Like what was the benefit?


But all that engine stuff aside. The air cooled models, if nothing else, look a hell of a lot better IMPO.


Also, I think its already been said I think they made more liquid cooled cars so supply and demand.

Some of it has to do with what mikefocke said, " toys of our youth that we didn't have then that we now can have". The 993 is the one Porsche purist real want as the last air-cooled Porsche. For me it`s the 930 turbo, and I would love to have one someday. It was the very first Porsche that I drove as a teenager working at a garage as a summer student. Would I buy one if I had the money? Probably not, I would probably get something newer with more power and better handling.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1607301216.jpg

I have a 993tt and its just a different experience. It has old world charm that you just dont get with the new stuff, at the cost of dealing with assemblies that are not quite modern in how they are installed. The 986 though feels similar ins size and agility and may even have better steering feel. Once you spend some time behind the wheel of an air cooled car, you'll know if its for you or not

I've owned two air-cooled Porsche's, a '78 911 SC and an '85 Carrera Targa. I'll without question own another someday. It's hard to explain the experience of driving one, and for me, it pretty much stands out above any car when it comes to pure fun factor. I have to say, prices now are ridiculous.

My dream car is the '94 3.6 Turbo. I should have bought one when they were in the $60's. While the 996 is Porsche through and through, it's ugly as homemade sin. Sorry. They will not see the appreciation that the air-cooled cars have seen, with the exception of the Turbo. The only 996 I'd consider would be a Turbo or 4S. I could never own a base 996.

I never cared anything about aircooled Porsches because they are so slow & cramped inside. In 2000 I got a job test driving new Porsches & I loved the new Porsches. I finally got to drive a 1986 Turbo-look Porsche to deliver back to Stefanie Powers. I couldn't believe how hard it was to shift the manual 5-speed gears, & lack of low RPM torque. I wouldn't trade my 2000 Boxster S for anything air-cooled, Or any 987.

Historically Porsche was an air-cooled sports car manufacturer and some people like sticking to the roots of the company. Water cooled, to some, is blasphemy but technologically it makes sense. I think the SUVs and sedans have taken away from the mystique of Porsche even more so than water cooling has. Given that, my 914 with its 3.5l air-cooled 6 is noticeably quicker than my Boxster. But the Boxster is much more "civilized" and easier to drive.

As stated in a previous post, it's "a toy of my youth" that I can now afford.
For me it's more like a fantasy from my youth! I spent decades modifying and driving Beetles pretending in my youthful mind that they were almost 911's.

The sound and feel of an air cooled rear engine 911 is a special kind of music for some of us!
:)

Curious, why not a 987? Especially a 987.2

Interesting thread.
Here's an additional perspective:

In the '80's, I drove some of the newish models and was do disenchanted that it turned me off to Porsche for 3 decades. I've been a harsh critic of what Porsche thinks a good handling car feels like for a long time, based on those '70's and '80's air cooled Porsches. It seemed that Porsche wanted to simply continue to update their flawed design for all those years. Truly; you could walk me through a paddock and I wouldn't be able to tell a 70's 911 from a 90's 911, because Porsche was hell-bent on providing the same old P.O.S. to the world, and the masses just kept eating it up and raving about it.
Or so I thought.

Then I drove the 986 (a car I had dismissed along with everybody else), and couldn't quit giggling. I realized then that I was wrong, and needed to open my eyes a little bit. Since then, I've driven some fantastic Porsches, from Cayman GT4's to a GT3RS, and some other tasty things in between. Fantastic cars.

They still don't tick the box for me, emotionally. They don't feel particularly "special". They're very good at what they do, but there's little emotion involved in it.

And the air-cooled cars? Still terrible. Horrible, poor-performing buckets of "#metoo" for the academia-types (with patches on the elbows of their tweed blazers) who wouldn't know a good-performing car if it stood up and spoke Italian to them.

Maytag,

Your post made me smile !!

and the 914 is much lighter than a 986

TBH I'd love an air cooled model. BUT the price keeps me 10 000 feet away. Not the initial price; that I almost understand. Its the upkeep that is insane. Thats why I drive a VW. Quirky funny to drive (not a performer), but just a smelly nitty gritty machine. A machine that I might add costs pennies to re-finish. And EVERY city in the world is gonna have parts for it. Normal people can't daily drive an air cooled Porsche properly to work everyday as I do with my VW.

For starters as Dr.Porsche said: "Add lightness",987's are heaver & bigger,& there's more gadgets inside to distract you. 986 is more like a go cart & has everything I need to get where I want to go.

Bravo, Maytag! Ever consider a writing career for Motor Trend or something? You know I don't always agree with you, but damn, you know how to make compelling, colorful arguments!

:cheers:

For me, just the fact that they don't have an oil dipstick is one major reason. :eek:

Umm I call BS. I know personal perception is colored by life experience, but the 80s ? really? The most depressing decade of automotive junk ever?

What were you comparing Porsche to that you felt was so superior? American iron with the smog choked engines that were lucky to survive to 100k miles? The corvette finally in 85 put a control arm that wasn't a direct descendant of a 56 Olds. Jaguar had the glorious XJS that was like living in California, you didn't know when the electric was going to fail. Italian cars were so finicky if you drove them twice in a month you had to check them into a shop for rehab?

SO please to not sound like the snooty patched sleeve professor and believe me I do like your new car but the last jab of speaking Italian was a bit much. :rolleyes:

While Porsche had some troubles ( catalytic converters under the cylinders, magnesium cases that spit out studs like sunflower seed shells and with a climate control system that still sucked) At least they were reliable and with bodies now being galvanize zinc dipped they were built for the long haul. AND if you really had a death wish or just enjoyed being terrified you could buy a turbo and turn both sides of the apex into white knuckle thrills. :cheers:

I drove a 914 around DC every day for almost two years. '70. Loved that car. Ski rack, etc. But maybe it was taking it skiing that caused me to start worrying about rust. That and the unavailability of parts and service. (My dealer had a spot I parked in at least once a month with my name on it. Never could get the drivers window fixed.) Sold it a week before the warranty expired to a just graduated Dr who took it to Philly. I always wanted it back.

Come to think of it, I have owned 6 VW/Porsche engine cars. One a Plymouth Horizon. One the 914. 2 Boxsters. One Type 3 and one Type 4 wagon. The Boxsters were the only ones that didn't rust on me.

Ah Monty; such the contrarian! I mean, calling "BS" on my opinion!?!? :matchup:

I make no claims about reliability of other cars of the era, but my comments were about how the car handled, not how reliable or practical it was. What cars of the era handled better? In my own experience; nearly all of them. At the edge, the 911 was prone to pushing the front horribly (understeer plagues them all). You take a car that understeers to the racetrack and you can learn to deal with it. But you take it to a canyon and it deals with you. That's how people die. Mind you we aren't talking about mild understeer solved with better tires; no we're talking about your "white-knuckle" corner-entry being paired with recitations of prayers to deity that won't be heard because the Gods speak Italian, not German. In 1985 I was driving a diminutive '75 Fiat 124 Sport (know to most as the Spider). Twin overhead cam, High-Revving Lampredi motor with actual dual-twin-throat Webers on it. It sounded glorious at full honk, and the car went where you pointed it. It may've left something to the 911 in a straight line, but on a canyon road, the Fiat was far superior to the supposedly "Exotic" Porsche. Funny and true: the 911 was frequently mistaken for my mother's singer-sewing-machine as we listened for its sound from farther up the road where we'd pull over and wait for Darin and the "german exotic" to catch up with us.

But set aside my own proclivities, and look at other cars of the era. Yes, they were choked by smog equipment, but on the domestic-front, the fox-bodied mustang GT or 4-cylinder SVO would hand the Porsche 911 its hat in nearly any contest. On the more "exotic" side, which is the arena the Porsche was regularly lumped-into, (if for no other reason than its price-tag), Sure, there were some horrible cars (though with more character) like the Maserati BiTurbo, but the Ferrari Mondial coupe was far superior in every way. Remember: in the '90's, people were comparing the 911 to things like the Lamborghini Jalpa, and the Lotus Esprit; both far superior cars to the 911. Hell, even the ugly Aston Martin Zagato was a better choice than the german scone. And heaven forbid we start talking Nissan Skyline..... or even the 'Z-cars. Both better road-course cars than the 911, costing less too. (admittedly the Skyline cost more if you were to import one to the US).

Taste is subjective, of course, and thank heavens for that; if everyone loved the same cars I do, then I probably wouldn't be able to afford them, haha. But I was disenfranchised from every motor-journalist who got all mushy-mouthed about another Porsche which looked just like the last: Like a half-used bar of dial soap.

Merkur XR4ti, Buick GN, Mazda RX7, BMW M3, Lotus Elan, Toyota Supra, BMW Z1, VW MKII GTI, IROC-Z/TransAm, I mean, the list of cars from the '80's that excite me more than the air-cooled 911's, and which I could argue to be better cars ALL. DAY. LONG. literally goes on and on and on. And on and on and on.

HAHA I knew that'd get you. One thing I found and quickly realized was that with the rear engine it would take an average person a year if ever to learn how to drive the car. Instruction was highly recommended.

Understeer? The 911 was and is known for it's lift throttle OVERSTEER. Panic in a turn and that tail is swap happy, but A slight lift off throttle to kick the tail out and back on the gas and it was point and shoot. The turbo added an extra dimension to that.

And yes I drove most of the cars on your list and while they had a certain appeal handle better? Fiat 124? Not in same league. Sorry.

And yet there we were..... waiting on darin every time we went out. ;-)

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Haha Don't judge the car by the driver. Enjoy:cheers:

Show me your elbows, monty! Haha. Cheers right back atcha! ;-)




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What is the fascination? I'll tell you mine. It is the sound. The sound of high performance. I could never ride a Harley even though I'm a Boomer and supposed to be drawn to that iron. I can't stand the sound of both cylinders firing on the same stroke, it just sounds wrong. Singer sewing machine? quite possible, well tuned and the sound of the cooling fan is unmistakeable even today. Don't know about you but when just about anything with military power flies overhead I look up because that is what high performance sounds like. It stirs the emotion. Like the sound of the Boxster when in the perfect twisties just using throttle and singing up and down the rev range. I love it.

Aww damn just read Chuck Yeager passed away. Greatest pilot ever. RIP.

911monty, we are on the same wavelength. I will never understand the appeal of Hogly-Fergusons. I've tried riding with friends who had them, and it never went well. The first time I had my Honda 500 Interceptor. I quickly tired of riding slowly enough he could stay near me. And I wasn't TRYING to go fast--I saved that for the track where things were better controlled. The second time was on my Ducati ST2. It started overheating since we were going at a speed to get sufficient cooling airflow. We won't go into aesthetics, but the sound! If I wanted a tractor, I would just buy one.

Getting back to the Porsche world, I had dismissed Boxsters as "hairdressers'" or "girls'" cars, but the experience, both tactile and aural is so sublime so as to overrule that perception.

Glad to know I'm not the only weirdo looking up at aircraft overhead making delicious sounds. I even like Piper Cubs and DC3s!

This is as it should be, Monty, and gets my full support. :cheers:
It's that emotional component to our automotive love affair that has to be sated; the auditory experience is a HUGE part of that. You and I could argue about which sounds better: the shriek of a tiny V8 at High Rpm, howling through miles of intake-plenum, versus the sewing-machine in my mother's basement, but ultimately that IS subjective, and MUST be so. :matchup:

I'm kidding, by the way; I CAN tell the difference between the sounds of an air-cooled flat 6 and the singer sewing machine. (Though the jury is still out which one excites me more):rolleyes::p:matchup::cheers:

"There's no sound like a round."

But I like just about all aircraft sounds. There's an air refueling base at our airport, and I'm always looking up at the KC-135 Stratotankers and they even bring in C-17 Globemasters. :cheers:

RIP Chuck Yeager.

There is something "special" about an air cooled 911. The smells, sounds, feel, it's all "strong". Add the fact it was a "mostly" hand built sports car and they are something special

From the clunk of the door closing, to the "hot engine" smell of oil, and the steering feel, it's an experience. I had a 90 964 C2 as a daily driver for 8 years in the northeast, snow unless deep wasn't a problem, great heat in the winter, but traffic was an issue (don't want to look like popeye with the huge clutch leg)

Now, my 987.2 Cayman S is faster and more comfortable. There's a lot to be said for AC that works (the 964 had like a baggy of ice cubes held 10 feet away with a fan blowing over the baggy.... not effective), head lights that are modern (964 headlights were old technology, closer to candles under glass), BUT there was something special about an aircooled 911........

Until the 911 gets rear ended by a mini-van school bus........ my biggest issue with a daily driver 911.......

-Eric
99 986
09 Cayman S PDK
departed 90 964 C2, 89 944 S2, 87 951

FWIW: I got ALL of this just as notably from a '64 Corvair. :D