For guys that dont work on there own cars goes without saying. With 5000 plus posts you have plenty of time to dedicate to the car. Just wondering how much your tools and lift cost as well as the actual garage not to mention your time which from listening to you to guys an hour of your time is not worth much....actually nothing according to your accounting.Mazada Miata is a good recommendation and 2k is not unreasonable....maybe he wants a stereo or some tools, a lift. mmmmmmmm. I have changed my own oil once it was ok but didnt save gobs of money.I have found some jobs satisfying but I feel that diy is the only way to own the car within a budget is not a good car for a person.

Just wondering, How much does a track day cost or track tires? Bottom line Porsche costs money period.

Why exclude tires and oil changes? These cars are notorious for chewing thru rear tires in no time even when aligned properly which has to be done more than every 2 years. You are fooling yourself if you think you are not spending money.You would tell a person that your house will only cost the mortgage in your budget just exclude elec. and water.Like I told the OP earlier start a 2k + or - . Or 10k in time tools etc... PARTS! I guess those are excluded too!

Could not disagree more with this. (I think. It's honestly tough to tell exactly what you're trying to say)
In my experience, Most car "enthusiasts" like to tinker, and turn wrenches. So while my time during the day at work bills at a couple hundred bucks per hour, my time at home is spent doing what I enjoy. If that happens to also save me from having to pay somebody a couple hundred bucks an hour, so much the better.

Growing up, I always had "fun" cars. Cars that were different from what everyone else had. Buying cars with "character" opens a wealth of learning opportunities. But just as importantly, it teaches the value of money, because if I can do something (as a 20 yr old kid) that somebody else would charge me $100/hr to do, then I'm making $100/hr while I'm doing it, right?

If you don't enjoy wrenching, then this may seem foreign to you..... just as your post does to me, haha.

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2 sets of tires in 8 years for a total of about $1100. ;)

I actually like working on my car. It's a hobby. I don't figure in cost of my time. ;)

I am trying to say that these cars average about 2k year in maintenance. Trying to help the original post tell his wife the truth so there wont be problems down the line when the box needs a couple grand. I apologize for the hard to understand post. I get hot under the collar reading that these cars dont cost money, they do because they are old not because they are Porsche. My Pristine near perfect 1980 280zx just gave me a 7500 dollar kiss from replacing wear items from being old. I think I have had a couple maintenance free Porsche years and some real dooozies as well.The most important thing is his WIFE said BUDGET of 7k. Someone needs to tell here that gets you in the game but he might want a burger and a beer so can he have 40$ more?( I just heard beers are 15 dollars at the Jags game) Cheers! Remember ..... wife and budget

I have tools...they dont make the man. You have helped me plenty. Both of you guys know what i am saying.Tools I did not have before a
Porsche ..Torque wrench ...Brake bleeder....good air tools....jacks stands .....low profilejack . again one way or another it will cost you.

I get it. I just think the $2k per year that a lot of people quote is very high.
Just pointing out the other side of the coin. ;)

All cars cost money, Porsches just make it worth it........ period.

I agree 1000%. 2k per year is just crazy, there was a previous thread that had some outrageous “per year” quote as well. Sure, is it possible that a 16-20 yr old car is going to need some work. Probably. But, unless you fry an engine even over a 10yr period is one going to average 2k annually.

BTW, there really is only one other major thing to consider. Boxsters have “The Badge” it simply comes down to this. And “The Badge” can be had for reasonable money for a great little car. Do it now, before things change and prices start to rise.

I agree $2K per year is not realistic, maybe some years where you have $2K but I say normal maintenance including averaging out the wear items $1K or less. I have a 2007 Euro Ford Mondeo Turbo, cost me more on maintenance.

Waves, the expenses typically come in waves
This year I had to break down and get the evap monitoring system working so I could pass inspection. I could have farted around and maybe fixed under the $950 I paid to have an indie do it.
I need a new top and new rear tires and front pads.
So this year I could have spent the $2k (I haven't done top or rear tires)
But unless something else broke (Always a turn of the key away), next couple years would only see a pair of front tires. So yes the $2k is an overestimate.
Figure that if you saveed up the $2k each year, you could buy a new (used) boxster about every 3.5-4 years, just don't do anything to the car

Good way to explain it, comes in waves! Some of those waves are because of it just being an old car, some just typical wear.

first year my car needed a clutch and ims 1800 . this year 7 years later i put clutch and short shift almost 2k... so not counting anything else there is 2 years 2 grand. totally rebuilt front end at 100k miles ,cv joints ,car cover spyder humps ,aos muffler 3 sets rear tires and the list goes on,I can scan the receipts. My car is as perfect as I can get it and it costs money.How bout a 1k year maintenance or do you want to deny that as well. Bought the car with 88k from brumos Porsche , guess I am an exception. At least 3 times I have been told that they had a box but got rid of it because of cost. Probably these guys never have to change there clutch and if they do they just DIY. So MINE has cost 2 grand average. Last week I pulled up to the office and a worker said I was wondering who was in the 100k dollar car.It didnt stay that way with no car care products either...which add up.If you honestly started to add it ALL up you may be suprised

Quality dual action polisher 200 bucks or get someone else to cut you car at least 200 bucks.yes washing, waxing is maintenance!

That's not what we're talking about here, and you know it. Very few people would look at the 986 as a car worthy of making "perfect". There are some of you, and that's awesome. And y'all will spend your fortunes doing so. (Especially since you seem to have some disregard for DIY'ers)

But for most people, it's a fun used car. It needs maintenance and upkeep like any other used car.

$200/yr in oil changes. A coolant flush and brake job every couple of years. Ties every 3 years, depending on how you drive. A clutch every 10 years. These are the same expenses you'll have with ANY car, and we're not taking anywhere NEAR $2k/yr.


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Just to keep it on the road.......next to nothing. shake rattle and roll

Ha! It seems like you have a pretty low opinion of your fellow forum members, and of the Porsche build quality in general?

You think that there are two options, "perfect", and "Shake Rattle and Roll Down the Road"? Nothing in between those two options?
I would invite you to take a ride in any of my used cars. Some of them may be older than you are? Each of them has its own use, and show each of them has a different level of attention given to it. None of them, however, "Shake Rattle and Roll". That you do not know how to care for your own vehicle yourself, and therefore must spend extra money paying someone else to do things for you, does not make it so for the rest of us.

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actually the only reason I chimed in is because of YOUR post to the guy that suggested a Miata and 10k...which you called a snob.I should have minded my own buisness.

Not at all. It's on a public forum, it's your business same as it is mine. But don't expect to be able to throw out garbage and not get called on it.

A $10k annual maintenance budget is garbage. 10/10ths (who originally said it) even conceded that it was merely tossed out to try to make a point.

A $2k annual maintenance budget is also excessive, in most cases. Again, 10/10ths (who said it first) conceded it was unnecessarily high for most owners.

You seem to be the only one hanging-on to the number, and won't let go of the bone.

Look... even my relatively "catastrophic" clutch failure at the racetrack last week didn't have to get to your $2k number, if I had just buttoned it up with stock components. (I didn't: I'm upgrading, haha)

I think you'd need to suffer a catastrophe of large magnitude to reach $2k, if you DIY.

Now, COULD I spend $2k annually? In a heartbeat. New headlights. New shifter cables. New leather interior. Respray the hood and front bumper. New top.
But must i? Nope. Headlights are fine. Shifter cables find the right gear each time. The paint looks great from 15 feet. The leather driver's seat looks like it's got 50k miles on it, which is pretty good, since it's got 150k miles on it.

I don't know why you'd try to discourage a new enthusiast with an inflated "worse than worst case" estimate? Ego?

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a7k dollar p car is going to cost money he needs to tell his wife. Not that he can DIY.I have continually said WIFE AND BUDGET.

A $7k ANY CAR is going to cost money to maintain. No one is disputing that. We are disputing the idea that it will require $10,000 a year, or $2,000 a year.
If you buy the right $7,000 Boxster, you will be just fine with a couple hundred bucks a year in maintenance. The occasional repair, if you keep it for a number of years.

However, I think I've figured out what the point you are trying to make is. Finally! Sorry I was so slow on the pickup.

You are suggesting, if I understand you correctly now, that if he spends more than that $7,000 budget, over the life of the vehicle, or however long he owns it, then he risks his marriage. Do I understand that correctly now? Is this your concern?

If I've understood that correctly now, then my recommendation would absolutely be different than what I've suggested below. My recommendation would be: don't get married yet. It's either not the right time, or the right one. If the maintenance budget of a car, any car, will put your marriage at risk.

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yes and depending on his needs and the car he can AVERAGE 2k over several years. Lots of posts about replacing engines. Lets say he needed a waterpump, AOS, coolant tank and tires in the first 18months with no DIY. How much? He did not say its a hobbie car. He said SHE gave him a budget.how bout this ....potentially 150 dollars a month average expense to own the car. yea I am holding on to that number could be 2k a year.

Let's agree that we're too far apart in the way we approach things to come together on this.

Personally, if I didn't DIY, I wouldn't buy a used car. Period.

I have not found anybody that I trust to do work on my cars, including and especially the local "group" that has the Porsche dealership. I have had the same people do work on my Jags, Mercedes, Audi, Jeeps, etc. and now they've gobbled-up the Maserati dealership too, so another place I can't trust for my car. Simple thing's, mind you: alignments, etc. And they have so far COMPLETELY FAILED ME, every time. I wouldn't let them touch another one of my vehicles. DIY is much more reliable, satisfying, and cheaper.

Just sayin'.....

exactly why I started DIY. Always collateral damage. Had my clutch done last month,got it back and intermittently would get stuck in 1st or reverse .Took it back he called and said to much play in shifter, 300 for stock 500 for short shift. Put SS on, got it back same thing. Came on this forum and found the problem, told the guy it was in the linkage in the rear. Called said they checked it out and couldnt find anything, must be internal. Has not got hung up yet and has been several weeks. Personally I have spent alot but I am sure you are right.

off topic Maytag Blue cheese ,great product used 20 years in restaurants

Ha! The JEEP guys told me I was wrong about a motor mount that had failed in my '13 GC. They told me "it's just rubber, and is supposed to flex". I told them "it's HYDRAULIC, and isn't supposed to be dumping fluid all over the frame..... ". I told them to order the part, and because I had a service warranty, I asked them to install it. Which they did.... eventually. I called on the 3rd day and said "how close are we?" and they said "we're waiting on a bolt for the A/C compressor to arrive from Denver." I asked "why are we messing with the A/C compressor?" they said "we bent the bolt when we used it to jack the motor up to replace the motor-mount".

!?!?!?!?!?!?! this was the DEALER, mind you.

yeah.... done with them all.
There are only a few things I can't do on my own cars, like evacuating and recharging the refrigerant in the A/C, for instance. so I just assume I'm gonna get screwed when I have those things done, and then I'm not disappointed when it happens. Like their $585 charge to refill the refrigerant on my wife's '15 JEEP Renegade. (Who knew there's a new refrigerant they're using now? Called R1234YF. EXPENSIVE)

Somewhere in the rhetoric the intent of this thread got somewhat lost. In my incredibly humble opinion, I believe the point being made was the ownership costs will start to pile up...IF Porsche recommended service is followed and even more so, if such service is done by an outside mechanic (either independent or dealer). Conceding the point that DIYing will greatly reduce the associated costs, many people don't either have the skill, time, tools or patience to work on their cars.

Also, it's my personal experience that these cars have some items that are more prone to failure than other cars I've owned, we could debate if that's due to engineering, complexity or poor quality, but that's not the point. My point is that some items that shouldn't fail as soon as they do, will...and that cost to repair/replace should be considered when thinking about purchasing, and that it's only smart to factor in the total ownership costs not just "how much am I forking out today?".

Before I'm taken to task on the items I've mentioned, here are some things I've needed to do that I've not experienced on any other car I've owned (and all at less than 40k miles):
- water pump failure
- climate control unit
- coolant cap (not a big $$, but common, really? I've never had to replace a cap)
- plug tubes
- radiator (due to pump failure)
- IMSB (proactive, but something I've never considered on another car)
- clutch
And I'm sure many items I'm forgetting in 10 years of ownership. Also, this list doesn't count wear items (that I *might* have done on any other car) and all other regular maintenance items (fluids, etc). As far as maintenance costs vs miles driven, this has been by far the most expensive car I've owned; not that I'm complaining, I just see it as a "pay to play" situation...and something that I think potential buyers should consider.

And yes, all of the numbers being thrown around are most likely "top of the head" guesses, but if I were to personally throw in my (ahem, humble) guess, maybe $2000/yr is about what I suppose I've averaged....and yes, your mileage may very. And one final admittance...I'm not a big DIYer on engine/drivetrain items, so I've paid to have those things done.

One last point of contention, I read "elitist" and I personally disagree with that term (it sounds insulting), but I'll admit that I see my Boxster as something special, or at least I feel something more than I do towards my other cars (which are Audis, and cost far more than my 986). I don't think my attachment is "elitist" and I don't think it's just the Porsche badge...I don't really know how to explain it, perhaps it's just got more "soul", and as it's won my affections, I take care of it. I suppose I could say my Audis are cars, but my Boxster is family. Well that's just wonderful, I've now described my Boxter as my "elite" vehicle, so I suppose I am an elitist. Sigh...

:)

MWS, I'ma add you to my "when this dude takes the time to write something, it'll be worth reading" list. Along with JFP, Particlewave, Stone, RadiumKing, and so many others on here.

My car that stands as the absolute MOST Expensive, per mile, is an 06 Jaguar S tpe -R, at something north of $10/mile driven in maintenance and repairs. (!!) Yet if I were to compare my experience with that car to many other's, they'd tell me I was crazy. Second worst, by far, is a Mazda MPV from the '90's.

To Landrover enthusiasts, the list you provided would seem mild, compared to what they would have dealt with in ownership. But to a Miata owner, probably a different reaction. My point, I guess, is that our perspectives will vary based on our experiences, and our responses will likewise be relative to what else we've experienced.

I'll clarify (rather than defend) my use of the word "elitist", because I don't want to offend with its use. The word was chosen because it describes any group of people who acct in a way that seems to discourage inclusion of others. I believe its use is also appropriate to describe any "me, but not you" attitude, (such as "I can justify owning one, but you can't"). I did NOT use the word in its common usage; to suggest that anyone here thinks of themselves as better than others, because they drive a $10k used Porsche. (Although I do chuckle when I see people take pride in letting their neighbors think they have a $100 car, rather than correcting them.) As an enthusiast, I've ALWAYS sought to find ways to include more people. Heck, I even let my office-mates take my 986 to lunch on occasion. I think that if somebody can get into a Porsche because they love them, I'm going to try to do everything I can to encourage that.

Most of me looks at a post like the one that started this thread as a handshake, of sorts. I mean, do you really think the young man is going to make his decision based on anything we tell him here? Doubt it. He's gonna buy the car he loves. So why'd he ask the question? Because he's hoping to find a support-group for his addiction, haha. He's looking for some like-minded people to share his enthusiasm with. your post, MWS, outlining what items you've had to do and in what time-frame, allows him to check himself, his tolerance for DIY, etc. But a post that says "If you can't afford $10k / year in maintenance, just go buy a Miata" seems (to me) to be exclusionary in intent. hence: "elitist".

anyway..... Thanks for bringing us back to the ground. :-):cheers:

maybe $2000/yr is about what I suppose I've averaged
 

nuff said Thanks.. maytag..now I cant understand what you are saying LOL

Haha.... me either!

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