Borla exhaust
 

Anybody using the Borla exhaust on a 2004 vintage Boxster? How does it compare to Fabspeed? Any drone? How is the sound? Much cheaper than the Fabspeed max flow. Appreciate any informed comments. Thanks.

I don't have it.....
 

...but, friends who do report loud, and drone.

YMMV.

BUT, all two piece mufflers on 986 Boxster have a drone at highway speed that will drive you batty.

The reason is because the Porsche engineers designed the factory muffler to be part of the overall powertrain's harmonic balance at speed. That big, single, heavy muffler acts as a tuned part of the entire powertrain and absorbs the vibration and sound harmonics as everything spins and vibrates.

That's why all the aftermarket mufflers that don't exactly copy the mass and shape of the factory muffler drone and will give you a headache on a long highway trip.

THE solution for a real world, every day useable, cross-country driving vacation Boxster 986 is the FVD Brombacher "Sound Version" muffler.

It's expensive, but it is made of a higher grade of stainless steel that keeps its polished finish for life, does not give you a headache on a long trip, and sounds great, with a faint burble and pop on lift throttle that sounds even better, with LESS drone, when paired with secondary cat delete pipes.

Save your money and buy one and enjoy life.

Good luck.

:cheers:

I have it on a 2000 S..I love the sound ..With NPH headers and a circuit works secondary cat delete. Cold air kit .Much louder than stock. Wish it was louder,In a tunnel or under an overpass the car sounds vicious.

I understand they are louder, but drone. That is from every, user review I have read. The drone does not exactly make them not sound good, just makes them annoying on long drive. I think the fadspeed has a balance pipe to help with the drone.

This explains why:
 

You want one big muffler:


"Porsche Boxster Story" by Paul Frere, page 56.

The Borla was on my 2004 when I bought it. Loved the exhaust note, couldn’t live with the very bad drone. I replaced it with the FVD Brombacher ‘sound version’ and have never looked back.

The Borla is very well constructed using quality materials, but it needs a balance pipe at the least. You can find my posts regarding the Borla and the FVD via the search.

I have a used SpeedArt 'sound version' (same manufacturer as the FVD) that I removed from my 987 CS for sale for $1,000 plus shipping from So.Cal.

Also will be offering as well other goodies like a recently rebuilt set of KW-V3's coilovers, OS Gicken LSD, IPD plenum with the GT3 throttle body and a couple of other thinks that cannot remember right now

Couldn’t find any videos on Circuit Werks cat back exhaust so I hope this helps someone.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=el9QfUNsnPc&app=m&persist_app=1

Took me almost 4 hours to install because it got too dark. Could probably do it in 2 hours ish second time around. Enjoy.

Any drone?

Looks and sounds like my (former) Beluga-probably the same with different labels. I loved the sound until I drove it. I was embarrassed to drive it in my neighborhood. I found it offensive and the drone was unbearable. I am now desnorkled with the Crios exhaust mod- sound is fantastic. To each his own.

There is some drone for sure but it doesn’t bother me. I like how throaty it sounds and def better than my stock exhaust and the annoying rattle.

Some drone but I like it. My stock one was too soft and I wanted more rumble. For under $300, I think it’s a great buy. You thinking about getting one too?

I keep reading and reading.... I'm not sure I define drone the same as many of you?

To me, drone occurs when a specific audible frequency creates a resonance that amplifies the sound. It's not simply an exhaust you can hear at freeway speeds. That's why so many report an improvement with different clamps (or even different torque on the clamps); because they've changed the resonance frequency.

I have a "cheap" beluga exhaust, with the circuit werks secondary pipes. And I have no drone. Zero. My wife and I spent about 6 hours straight in the car 2 weeks ago, and I even asked her to pay attention for it: no drone.

I DO however, have a rattle that's just developed inside one of the mufflers... from something coming unwelded, or riveted, or whatever cheap method they use. It's got a 1 yr warranty, but I don't want to be without the car for however long it takes them to decide whether to repair or replace..... haven't made up my mind shady I'm gonna do yet....

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Maybe I don’t know what “drone” is then. I describe it as the humming noise my exhaust makes in the lower rpms. High rpms always sound great from most exhaust systems... it’s the lower rpms that create annoying drone for some. I like the exhaust regardless.

I edited my comment, but you quoted it first, dangit! Sorry.... I didn't mean to sound rude about it. Haha.
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All good. No apology needed. Have a good one.

Install Headers and Secondaries, drone problem solved! ;)

Borla sounds OK. I've compared it to a cheap Beluga (ebay $200 50mm exhaust) and I'd rather have the Beluga. Borla looks kinda cool out the back but it's not aggressive sounding. enough.

For those confussled... You know what it's it's like when you can hear yourself talk, breath, grind your teeth, deep inside your inner ear so much that it annoys the **************** out of you? Imagine the exhaust note echoing through your cabin like that around 3500 to 4500 Rpm.

Incomplete exhaust systems (muffler only) causes the exhaust note to be surpressed in certain ways but overly annoying in others. While when you have a full flowing exhaust, the exhaust note is less inside the cabin and more out the back where it should be. Basically the same concept as bass reflex in car audio systems.

While that all sounds well and good......
 

....the fact of the matter is that Porsche designed the engine, transmission, and entire exhaust system as a unit, and that entire unit was placed on a "shake table" and the harmonic balance of that entire unit was matched to the rest of the car and acted as a tuned balancing system.

That's why the muffler is attached the way it is with that big cross beam.

That is why any two muffler setup will sound horrible inside the car.

This FACT is well documented in the Porsche history book "Excellence Was Expected."

The whole dang powertrain is matched to offset the chassis harmonics and null them out.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1528240124.jpg

Yeah, sure it was. Haha!
Sorry pal, I don't believe it for a second. Not on a $50,000 car. No way.
It being written up in a book (a quick Google about the book suggests that the Boxster was not part of the vehicles covered, but I have not confirmed this.) doesn't make it true.

For instance:
https://goo.gl/images/G4etjK


And you throw down subjective things, like what sounds good, as if it's fact. I get it, I do the same thing! Haha
but, you have to realize, that what sounds good inside a car, is subjective. It is not something that the Porsche engineers have the final say on.



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I agree....
 

....that what sounds good to one person, is noise to another.

If you like it loud, that's absolutely fine. to each his own.

My point with my posting was in response to folks who have posted a lot of questions on this forum about different mufflers and if they have a drone inside while traveling down the highway.

EVERY two piece muffler installed on a 986 will have this drone.

And the reason why, is what I described. THAT is a FACT.

Now, that doesn't mean that a Borla or a Fabspeed or some other two muffler design is not right for YOU, or for many others.

I'm just trying to educate the folks who want some more sound outta their 986, but don't want a system that drones down the highway.

So, for those who care, note the dates on the bottom right corner of the book cover.

Enjoy:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1528255370.jpg



http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1528255390.jpg



http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1528255417.jpg

And another thing.....
 

....this harmonic balancing is also why it is CRITICAL to use a dual mass flywheel like the OEM unit instead of an aftermarket single mass flywheel.

There are all kinds of weird harmonics that affect a vehicle when all these parts are spinning around as you go down the road.

:cheers:

By the way, I DO think the Fabspeed sounds AWESOME.

I just couldn't live with it on a real world, cross-country driving 986.

For a weekend toy? Sure! I'd slap one on.

But my car is used for cross-country vacation trips in addition to just cruising down to the local car show.

:cheers:

Excellence Was Expected is not just “a book”. It is pretty much the most holistic, definitive book on Porsche ever written. You should give it a go sometime.

Porsche engineers, along with other Porsche decision makers, actually do have the final say on everything about the car when it leaves their assembly line. It’s their product and, right or wrong, they make it as they see fit. A buyer can change it with aftermarket parts or a baseball bat to suit their personal taste, but they cannot affect the design and production process in any fashion other than indirectly with their future purchase decisions.

I agree that what sounds good inside a car is subjective and I can subjectively say that the Borla tried to drill a hole through my head from around 2,200 to 3,000 rpm. The Brombacher, designed externally much like the original single muffler, does not and it still wails all the way to redline.

Hahaha.... y'all are killing me. ;-)

This reminds me of the comments that tried to drive me out of this forum when I first joined. Y'all worship these same guys who designed the IMS.... and the insanely stupid shift cable mechanism, the window regulators, and the many, many other "common failures" on these cars.
And no, they don't get the final word on ANYTHING that is subjective, like "does it sound good / right".

Throw around all-caps "FACT" enough times, you'll probably start to believe it yourself.... but you can't convince me, the guy driving a cheap "beluga", that "every two- muffler will drone"..... 'cuz guess what: mine doesn't. You're welcome to inspect it yourself. If you had one that DID, I'd be inclined to question the installation? ;-) hehe

I guess I'll never understand the "purist" mentality. But particularly when applied to an entry-level, sub-$50k (new), way over-produced "poor - man's - Porsche", that's 20 years old and not worth $10k right now. Just let it be what it is: a cheap, fun car.

All in fun, guys. All in fun. I'm-a poke at ya a little, cuz it seems you're taking this all very seriously. But it's all in fun. We all like different things... thank heavens. It makes it worth it.

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Maytag...
 

...No worries, it's all about the fun.

Again, for the record, install whichever exhaust makes you happy, that's what having fun with your car is all about.

I just wanted to post documented information as to the reason why two muffler setups drone. I just wanted to educate the collective on WHY the Beluga, Borla, et al sound the way they do. It fundamentally goes back to how Porsche engineered the drivetrain.

I'm NOT saying that the Porsche way is the ONLY way, or hit the highway.

I'm just saying that Porsche built them this way for a reason and because they did build them this way, if you fundamentally change the muffler from a one big can to a two small can setup, it will most likely drone because of how the muffler was originally designed to be an integrated part of the drivetrain and act as a mass balancer to the entire vehicle.

If you decide that that is not important, well, that's perfectly fine and I have zero issue with your choice, again, I just wanted folks who troll this forum to understand why these things sound the way they do.

The car companies invest millions in testing their systems. Any time you change out a major part for an aftermarket alternative, you run the risk of unintended consequences. In this case, you will likely introduce a headache inducing drone while cruising down the highway.

Since we are 20 years past the original vehicle launch, a whole new generation of folks are buying these cars cheap on the used market and want to have a fun car and that means a more fun exhaust note for many. I get that. I wanted that, too.

Being the old man that I am, I use my Box as a vacation car and I needed to find that compromise between a more fun sounding exhaust and one that didn't give me a headache halfway to the Grand Canyon.

After researching, I found out about the muffler design and that is what led me to purchase and install the FVD Brombacher "Sound Version" muffler and secondary cat bypass pipes.

I'm in Porsche exhaust heaven!

I found the Holy Grail exhaust for ME.

She sounds like I'm racing at LeMans with Steve McQueen from inside the car when I'm on the throttle, is silent when I'm on the interstate at 75mph in cruise control in top gear, and is JUST loud enough outside the car that I get nods of approval from car guys, but does not attract cops or piss off old ladies or wakes up the neighbors when I leave the house at 5am.

YMMV.

Keep having fun with these great old cars.

I'm glad you are here.

Enjoy!

:cheers:

I see you are in Utah.......
 

......We were there recently:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1528285183.jpg

Hey! That looks like my 'hood!
Haha.
It'd be fun to meet up if you are out again. Alas, I can't drive my boxster long distances..... too dang loud.

Hahaha

Thanks you guys. Good sports, both of ya!

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I did the pedro sport exhaust and bypass catless pipes and I already had the crios mod on it...the sound its awesome ! and no drone at all ...I can say I love driving my car

Maytag...
 

....Well played, sir! That was funnny.

Sure thing, I always enjoy visiting with felllow car nuts.

I will drop a line next time I’m west of the Rockies.

All the best!

I have a borla catback with aftermarket headers and secondary’s it sounds insanely good.