Base or S model? Feedback Requested...
 

Hello all,

I've been interested in purchasing a 986 for a while now and have been doing my homework on cost of ownership, known issues and their associated costs to resolve, need to perform and record regular maintenance, driving experience, etc. Given all of this information, I'm looking to purchase a manual transmission 2003 - 2004 model year with options like litronic headlights, cruise control, and heated seats. The problem is, I've found an earlier base model 986 in great shape, with many of the known issue conditions recently completed (LN Engineering IMS, AOS) and new clutch and tires. The price is appropriate for the model and year and will get me into a 986 that can be driven right away with maybe just a few non-necessary things that I'd like to do.

Within my other cars, I have the options mentioned in the S model above. So not having them in a vehicle I plan to drive to work only sometimes, but mostly on weekends in good weather may not be necessary. So my question is, is there that much of a difference with the driving experience of a 986S and the upgrades associated with this model (more HP, suspension, brakes, etc.) to not purchase the base model with good maintenance record and replacement of key components?

Thanks
Joe

Joe, I've driven both the S and the Base. You can definitely feel a difference in power and handling with the S, but to be perfectly honest, the base model is really a lot of car. I own a base, and it's capabilities on track still exceed my abilities, and probably always will.

I had to do the IMS/RMS/AOS/Clutch, etc., when I bought my boxster, and it set me back to the tune of $5K. If I were in your shoes, I'd go for the base model with all of the work already done.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

I'm in almost the exactly the same spot. I have my eye on a local '03 base model with the IMS done, low km, needs very little. The only real issue is that it is not an S and not much cheaper than some of the S models I have my eye on. Unfortunately they are all far away so I have to deal with transport costs. I think I would be happy with the car and I would buy it were it $3-4 k cheaper than the S model. Often I don't keep my cars long so resale value is an issue. I really don't want to rush in and pay too much. It seems that the market agrees with me because its not getting snapped up. There are almost a dozen 986s I have my eye on that aren't selling and just not priced right IMHO.

Have you driven the S and base somewhat side by side?
If not do so

David

Thanks for the great feedback Need_for Speed. I like the idea of the IMS, clutch , etc. being performed (especially very recently) prior to purchase. It take the guess work out of needing to do so right away. Anything else that's likely to be needed I can probably do myself with a little help from these forums and youtube. I'm thinking the extra HP may not be necessary since I'll likely never track the car, but simply fun to have available.

Luckyman - No I have not, but would really like to Where I'm located it's not that easy to get out and test drive this model car. Just not that many available that I can travel to and test drive within a reasonable amount of time. And you're right, doing so would provide me with much better idea of performance between the two models.

356Guy - I see the same, many cars with high mileage that seem priced too high for my liking or too far away to consider.

Joe, I own an 03 S that I bought new. At the time I bought it, dealers still had unsold 02 S's in stock at bigger discounts, but not with the options I wanted, PSM, cruise control and heated seats, and I really wanted the glass rear window and glove box. I have to say that I like the lines of the 02 and earlier Boxsters better - the front and rear bumpers are much cleaner, and when the top is up on the earlier years, it looks cleaner with less bows and a more raked rear window! I have a friend in California who bought a non S manual car last year and I got to drive it a bit out there. If you're going to buy a manual car, and don't mind doing more shifting to stay within the power band, I think the non S is fine. I call myself a "lazy" manual driver in that I like to stay in the same gear over a wider speed range, cruising around town in 3rd gear, and able to still accelerate on the highway in 5th or 6th gear. That is where the S makes a difference for me on the street. I've done 2 HPDE events now with my S, and I'm sure I could soil my pants in the base car too on the track! Enjoy the search, that is a lot of the fun. Take a look at the Boxsters that are listed for sale in the online classifieds of the Porsche Club of America website and the online classifieds of Excellence Magazine in addition to all the other places you're shopping.

You will find many here saying S is the only way to go and there are also many who have a base (like me) and are perfectly happy. Drive it yourself and make up your own mind.

Bear in mind that there were fewer 03 & 04 models built so the availability may not be the same as the more plentiful Pre 03 models.

Here are the production numbers by year and model.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1489766030.jpg

I didnt realize they turned down production toward the end of the 986. Oh good, I have the rare 04S... LOL

I have driven both when I was test driving, I went with the S. I felt the difference and liked it.

subscribed for info

With the 97 Boxster introduced in 96, buy 03 it was getting to be an old model. I think it was demand that drove down production, but I guess I'm happy mine is rare too!

This topic comes up every so often:
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/65450-base-vs-s-weight.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/59437-base-s-model.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/52676-base-vs-s.html

You mention suspension as an upgraded feature of the S, but I don't think that's true. It may be slightly differently tuned to work better with the added power (and rear axle weight) of the S, and/or presence of lack of a tiptronic, (these options all significantly affect rear axle weight). For either base or "S" model Boxter, M030 is the option you'll want for the upgraded/sportier suspension.

I have never actually heard someone say "I wish I had less horsepower."

Yes you have heard someone who owned both say less HP was more fun. Heck my 85HP 914 was more fun that either but then I was much younger then... I could keep my foot down longer and harder without attracting the government's attention (In the '99 201HP and '01S 250HP I never got a ticket in Arctic Silver cars, not saying there weren't times I didn't deserve one.).

Now are there suspension, brakes, engine power improvements in the S? Yes. See here.)

The big difference comes in the '03 and I'd gladly have the 228HP base '03 over my '01S 250HP S. But you can change the entire roof assembly from an '03-'04 onto a earlier '97-;02 chassis. Not so the glove compartment.

The downside of the S is the wear in the driveshaft CV and CV boots due to the different angle the 6 speed imposes. A matter of personal preferences is the ratios of the 5 speed from the base are often preferred to those of the 6 speed of the S.

Yeah, I've seen the underside of my car while it was on a lift and those halfshaft angles are something. I didn't know that the base model doesn't share that trait! I did see a 987 Cayman underside once, not sure if it was an S or not, but I noticed the halfshafts were more or less square to the transaxle!

Below is for 2004 S
http://press.porsche.com/archive/products/press_kits/press_kits_2004/PDF/new/8-10_Boxster_S_Release.pdf

Thanks Frank_N, I thought I read that somewhere, just didn't know it was specifically for the 2004 model year.

Joe

Thanks Mike Focke, I've read most of the information you've provided on your website and it's great for those us thinking of getting into a 986 and those who already have them. Truly appreciate the work you've gone through to make this available.

Joe

PaulOfto - so that's the reason I'm not seeing many 03-04 986S models available at this time. Hoping more will appear as they're taken out of winterizaton.

PaulE - THanks for the two references to look for available 986's. I've been watching the PCA.org classifieds but wasn't aware of the Excellence magazine. I have it bookmarked now. I've wanted a Porsche for many years, but life has always pointed me toward other ways to "conscientiously and approprately" spend my money. So now that I have the opportunity to do so, I'm spending some extra time to think through what I need and what really may not be necessary based upon probable usage. But my mind keeps going back to when I owned a '72 MGB that handled so well, yet was so underpowered. I always felt that I had half of the best of two worlds :) However, since finding ou the the 2003 base has a little more HP, I'll start to include that into my searches.

Hi Joe. IMHO, within any given model year there is a material difference in the driving experience between the Base and the S. Having said that, the Base 986s I drove were very satisfying driving experiences. Looking back at your original post, the options you mentioned are available on the Base (I think) and they are not performance oriented.

If the emphasis is really on the non performance oriented options, for me a newer well maintained Base would be better than an older S that would require some TLC.

Comparing Base vs S across MYs becomes more difficult.

I was looking for a specific 986 (the Spyder Anniversary), otherwise I would have considered a newer Base 986/987 or later for sure.

No clear cut answers, but I hoped this helped!

If I were looking for a Boxster today, I'd first find a great Porsche mechanic. Not that the cars need that level of service frequently, but when they do it is good to have someone who really really knows Porsche's water cooled cars to work on it.

Next I'd go talk to the mechanic. He may have a line on a car he has been maintaining for the owner and so may be a source of a very valuable reference. Boxsters are cars that get sold for life stage reasons (marriage, divorce, age, buying a house, changing job locations, etc) and knowing the motivation of the seller and the maintenance history of the car takes much of the risk out of buying the car.

And finally, I'd look on Craigslist for your area. Get an idea of local asking prices understanding that most cars sell for maybe 5% less.

Go drive one. See if you fit. See if it is your idea of what such a car should feel like. When I was getting back into a sports car, I drove about 8 makes/models. It was amazing how a car that looked good on the showroom floor or the ads just wasn't for me. Some it took just sitting in, some as little as driving a block. The Boxster was a 1 mile and it was obvious case. But it might not fit you.

In my search, I had my must haves and the nice to haves. I found it beneficial to limit my search and not consider every car that popped up on the interwebs....

Must for me? Less than 50K miles, black ext, $20K max. After test driving an S and a couple of nonS, the S became a must have.

That was two years ago, it took several months and when I found as close to exactly what I wanted, I didn't hesitate to cut a deal.

I didn't like the Savanna Beige interior. I got over it, I also never notice the color when I am driving....

In defence of the base
 

Hi,

On normal roads, the driver is the biggest performance determinant. I'm a member of a Porsche club and we went out for a club run today. I had the 'slowest' car today being a 2002 2.7 manual. I spent most of the day following a 981 Cayman GTS, and didn't have any real difficulty keeping up with it, or with the others, BUT it is one hell of a lot of fun ringing the neck out of my 986 to do it. Using the gears to keep the 2.7 in the power band is great fun, especially if you are an enthusiastic driver who enjoys driving the car hard. These cars are all more than fast enough on normal roads, and no matter what you buy, you'll end up getting used to the power and thinking maybe you'd like more.
Personally, for the same money I'd go for a really nice example of a base 2.7 over a not so nice S. The gearbox is supposed to be a bit more reliable than the 6 speed as well. My car isn't in this picture but this is some of what I was up against today :D

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1489914798.jpg

These days, there is almost no price difference in my regional market (Seattle/PNW) between a base and an S.

Given that, I see no reason not to step up to an S. The 6 speed, more usable torque of the 3.2L, and bigger brakes are all very worthwhile.

I'm seeing 2-4k differences in pricing between S and base models in the northeast. That actually factors into another (but not previously mentioned) reason why I was asking. I thought the price difference between models was just a given. So, if I were to find a well maintained , lesser priced base model with some options I desire, would the difference in performance be worth the cost savings? I know this could be subjective and I appreciate what some have said about driving both and making the determination afterward. As the weather begins to warm hopefully some will become available nearby to test drive and work through the decision process. Thanks again to all.

Even though the number of base Boxsters and S nodels sold each year have been roughly equal, there are a lot more bases being offered for sale than S'es. My very rough estimate is that there is one S model offered for every 4 base models.

I have wondered what the underlying cause might be. What I have come up with are:

S'es are holding up better than bases, so owners are holding on to them.

Could be the exact opposite, so most S'es are gone to the eternal roadways.

No clue, but intriguing.

It really depends on how or what you're going to do with the car. If you intend to cruise from place to place then a base model will do the job nicely, but if you intend to "drive" it every now and then that's where the S comes in.

The extra shove and better brakes just add to the whole thing and turn it from a capable sportscar into a supercar troubling scamp.