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-   -   Is LSD standard on the S? (http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/65493-lsd-standard-s.html)

Boxx 02-20-2017 10:49 AM
Is LSD standard on the S?
 
Does a Limited Slip Differential come as standard equipment
as part of Boxster S's upgraded suspension and drivetrain components?

Gilles 02-20-2017 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxx (Post 527798)
Does a Limited Slip Differential come as standard equipment
as part of Boxster S's upgraded suspension and drivetrain components?
Nope, all have an open differential (not sure about the latest cars) but you do have a few options like a Torsen, Guard, OS Giken, etc. (different types..) but it will change the way your car drives in a awesome way.. stongly recommended

Boxx 02-20-2017 11:31 AM
Was it at least an option?

mikefocke 02-20-2017 12:13 PM
Not in 2001. I have an order sheet and neither traction or slip is found on it.

Boxx 02-20-2017 12:22 PM
I know PCM was an option in 2003.
I thought LSD was at least optional, but not sure when.

Maybe 2003-04 if not 2001?

Gelbster 02-20-2017 12:35 PM
Eric Johnson may be able to get you and LSD.He is the gearbox guru who chimes in sometimes.

The Radium King 02-20-2017 01:29 PM
no mechanical lsd for 986 ever. there was an electronic version that used PSM and ABS but a bit of a misnomer.

Boxx 02-20-2017 02:59 PM
Not ever. Wow.

I guess the occasional posts on LSD are regarding aftermarket units.

Gelbster 02-20-2017 03:04 PM
available here
 
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/64022-anyone-need-new-lsd.html

WillH 02-20-2017 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Radium King (Post 527821)
no mechanical lsd for 986 ever. there was an electronic version that used PSM and ABS but a bit of a misnomer.
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62890-what-transaxle-do-i-have.html
Post number #2 ?

The Radium King 02-20-2017 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillH (Post 527833)
vs post #9 or #19?

j.fro 02-20-2017 03:30 PM
I love my Guard torque biasing diff.

WillH 02-20-2017 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Radium King (Post 527834)
vs post #9 or #19?
some 5 speeds got LSD according to my G8601-002 trans code.

Not a real 986 as its not an S I guess ;)

The Radium King 02-20-2017 04:13 PM
well, i stand corrected then. never seen one in person, never seen one for sale, never seen the option available, not indicated as available in the PET, and you are the first person i've seen to have one.

WillH 02-20-2017 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Radium King (Post 527839)
well, i stand corrected then. never seen one in person, never seen one for sale, never seen the option available, not indicated as available in the PET, and you are the first person i've seen to have one.
According to what was written in the post I noted it should be. Trans code would suggest. But I happen to have the car on jack stands as its getting its winter work done and low and behold if it doesn't behave as it should for a limited slip. Is it toast?( I changed trans fluid last year with Porsche oil). Is it a bad joke and the ABS is adding the behaviour? I don't have PASM or traction control that I know of but I'd swear when it lets go both wheels are spinning. I generally get it sideways once a day 5 days a week on my morning commute 6 months a year.

WillH 02-20-2017 04:39 PM
I'll have to do a burn out in the spring for the real answer I guess. One track or two:dance:

Boxtaboy 02-20-2017 05:21 PM
Traction control was an option, but no LSD.

++does boxster 97-03 has traction control?++ - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

Boxx 02-20-2017 05:48 PM
Could traction control mimic an LSD?

I'm thinking it might be able to do it.

Think if a wheel was spinning, while the other one wasn't.
Traction loss. ABS knows. Locks the spinning wheel.
So, open diff, spins the other wheel instead. LSD.

Many gradations of ABS before lock.

thstone 02-21-2017 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxx (Post 527857)
Could traction control mimic an LSD?
No. Well, if you meant could TC act as a crappy LSD that acts nothing like a real LSD? Then, maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxx (Post 527857)
Think if a wheel was spinning, while the other one wasn't.
Traction loss. ABS knows. Locks the spinning wheel.
So, open diff, spins the other wheel instead. LSD. Many gradations of ABS before lock.
TC and LSD are two different solutions to similar but different problems. ABS does not "lock" the spinning wheel - ABS can only apply the brakes and at the limit of brake lockup, the ABS intervenes. Now you've gone from a wheel that was loosing traction and spinning to a wheel that is nearly skidding while under maximum braking. At the wheel/tire, this isn't the same effect as an LSD which is based on sensing the torque difference between the two rear wheels, not the difference in wheel speed.

I suppose TC/ABS could be considered an approximation of an LSD but its not a very good approximation.

thstone 02-21-2017 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillH (Post 527837)
some 5 speeds got LSD according to my G8601-002 trans code.
Agree. Very, very rare.

G8600-001 = 5 speed gearbox for 1997 - 1999
G8601-001 = 5 speed gearbox for 2000 - 2004
-001 is non-limited slip differential (LSD)
-002 is for the LSD

steved0x 02-21-2017 10:18 AM
Boxsters with "TC" (the more primitive traction control up through about 2001?) have what is called "ABD" or "Active Brake Differential" and "ASR" or "Anti Slip Regulation"

It sux for track driving, once you get to where you are picking up speed it will intervene every single time you go into a corner near the limit and you can feel the gas cutting out, the brakes clicking, etc... I think this is intended to be like an LSD, and while I don't have much experience driving an LSD car on the track, I am guessing it ain't like this ABD and ASR...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentley Manual
Available as an option through the 2000 model year, ABS/TC 5.3 is
an extension to the basic Porsche ABS system with the added
feature of traction control. The traction control system is made up of
two sub-systems, Automatic Brake Differential (ABD) and Anti Slip
Regulation (ASR).

Automatic Brake Differential (ABD) functions similar to a locking or
limited slip differential to help the vehicle retain traction. Uslng the
ABS wheel speed sensors to detect wheel spin during acceleration,
the ABS control module will pulse the hydraulic pressure line of the
brake caliper of the spinning wheel to assist the vehicle in gaining
traction.

If ABD intervention is not enough to regain traction, the ABS/TC
system will employ Anti-Slip Regulation (ASR). ASR adjusts fuel
Injector cycles and retards Ignition timing to reduce engine torque.
When the Traction Control system is operational, the indicator lamp
on Instrument panel is illuminated.

The traction control function can be disabled by means of the TC Off
switch located on the center console. If the TC system is
switched off, the TC warning lamps in the instrument panel and the
TC Off switch are illuminated.

NOTE- ABD remains active until vehicle speed reaches 62.5 miles per
hour, even if the TC system is turned off.

Gilles 02-21-2017 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.fro (Post 527835)
I love my Guard torque biasing diff.
I love my OS Giken LSD ;)

Specially because it also locks the differential during hard braking.

The Radium King 02-21-2017 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone (Post 527923)
Agree. Very, very rare.

G8600-001 = 5 speed gearbox for 1997 - 1999
G8601-001 = 5 speed gearbox for 2000 - 2004
-001 is non-limited slip differential (LSD)
-002 is for the LSD
have you seen others? i can't help but think that the existence of a numbering system for something is not proof that something exists. the -001 and -002 are probably a porsche standard that they apply to all transmissions, regardless of whether the option is actually available. willh has the only -002 i've ever heard of, and he notes that it doesn't behave like an lsd, so perhaps an error in numbering? otherwise it would be worth it's weight in gold to a spec racer, yes (anything OEM is allowed)?

steved0x 02-21-2017 11:40 AM
You guys are getting me all excited and "needing" an LSD.

There is a thread on rennlist about an $850 group buy for a 996 Helical LSD that seems like it would be very similar to a 986 Boxster LSD:

Anyone interested in a MFactory Made in USA LSD for 996 group buy for $850? - Rennlist Discussion Forums

That pricing drops it down almost into "why not" territory...

thstone 02-21-2017 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Radium King (Post 527933)
have you seen others? i can't help but think that the existence of a numbering system for something is not proof that something exists. the -001 and -002 are probably a porsche standard that they apply to all transmissions, regardless of whether the option is actually available. willh has the only -002 i've ever heard of, and he notes that it doesn't behave like an lsd, so perhaps an error in numbering? otherwise it would be worth it's weight in gold to a spec racer, yes (anything OEM is allowed)?
I have not personally ever seen a -002 myself, just heard on rare occasions people speak of them or claims to that effect. It could very well be a "bigfoot" phenomena (everyone has heard of one but no one has ever produced a body!).

Currently, the Spec Boxster rules only specify the G86/00 transmission and there is no mention of the LSD option. Elsewhere in the rules it states that the only changes allowed are those explicitly mentioned in the rules (if its not in the rules, its presumably illegal). Thus, I am sure a Spec Boxster running a stock LSD would be quickly protested.

JFP in PA 02-21-2017 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone (Post 527940)
I have not personally ever seen a -002 myself, just heard on rare occasions people speak of them or claims to that effect. It could very well be a "bigfoot" phenomena (everyone has heard of one but no one has ever produced a body!).
You are not the only one. Much like some other "phantom options" listed by Porsche (like the factory cell phone, which we only ever saw once, and that was in a car driven by a factory rep), we have never seen one either, only aftermarket units.

WillH 02-21-2017 04:28 PM
http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/z...psllfwgbna.jpg

So if -002 isn't lsd, what is it?

BYprodriver 02-22-2017 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.fro (Post 527835)
I love my Guard torque biasing diff.
I like mine too.

dijinn 02-23-2017 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steved0x (Post 527934)
You guys are getting me all excited and "needing" an LSD.

There is a thread on rennlist about an $850 group buy for a 996 Helical LSD that seems like it would be very similar to a 986 Boxster LSD:

Anyone interested in a MFactory Made in USA LSD for 996 group buy for $850? - Rennlist Discussion Forums

That pricing drops it down almost into "why not" territory...
At that price, it does make it very attractive. BUT that group buy is from April 2016 and looks to be dead now.

steved0x 02-23-2017 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijinn (Post 528086)
At that price, it does make it very attractive. BUT that group buy is from April 2016 and looks to be dead now.
Yeah, they never sent in a transaxle (or just the diff) to the manufacturer to use for developing the LSD. I contacted them and they said we could do a group buy here, same conditions, they would need 10 orders at $850 and we would have to send them the OEM diff from the desired model (3.2 6 speed, 2.7 5 speed, or 2.5 5 speed). Naturally I am interested in the 3.2 6 speed model :) They would provide whoever runs the group buy with a free LSD. If it were me I would pass that along to everybody and collect 11 orders at $775 plus whatever it costs to obtain the OEM diff and send to them (maybe one could be rented from Woody or someone that has a transmission laying around)

From reading some of the other threads, it sounds like install is not an easy DIY and there are some adjustments or something that need to be made when installing it...

If someone wants to run this group buy I can supply the contact info for the company.

Edit: isn't the 986 S transmission the same as the 996 transmission (although something has to be different since they turn the wheels in a different direction?). If the diff is the same maybe we could jump on that 996 group buy and get it moving again?

The Radium King 02-23-2017 09:23 AM
i am interested too. however, and i am fearful to say this as it will most likely turn into an LSD vs ATB (or wavetrac) discussion but ... is it an LSD? looks more like a torsen/automatic torque biasing differential than an lsd, so begs the question - does it lock on braking, or if one wheel is off the ground? apparently the wavetrac atb has some features of an lsd while still having the low-maintenance aspects of an atb. real-deal lsds are in the +$2k range (eric has good pricing on a plate LSD here but still $1k more that this group buy) but you can get an atb in the $1300 range - still more expensive than the group buy, but a proven track record is something to consider given the significant cost of install.

http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-parts-sale-wanted/62603-anyone-need-new-os-giken-lsd.html

steved0x 02-23-2017 09:41 AM
It is a helical gear design and I think it said both wheels have to be on the ground for it to work. Didn't say if it worked under braking or not.

More info: MFactory Competition Products - Performance Driveline Components

DWBOX2000 02-25-2017 07:45 PM
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1488084262.jpg
Mine not a 1 or 2 but a 10. This is confusing.

njbray 02-25-2017 08:21 PM
I purposely looked for a 2.7 car without the TC - as it was an early and awkward system.
But looking at the 002 on the label it looks like I have an LSD. I drive a lot of twisties and it feels like a standard LSD. (I have driven the same roads in a non LSD car and know how they feel).http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1488086496.jpg

itsnotanova 02-26-2017 04:01 AM
I know they say the 6 speed is an open dif, but my box always spins both wheels. If I take off fast, my rear end starts swinging out to the sides every time. In fact, I have to be careful if I'm taking off and turning at the same time as my rear always wants to swing around.

itsnotanova 02-26-2017 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steved0x (Post 528088)
Yeah, they never sent in a transaxle (or just the diff) to the manufacturer to use for developing the LSD. I contacted them and they said we could do a group buy here, same conditions, they would need 10 orders at $850 and we would have to send them the OEM diff from the desired model (3.2 6 speed, 2.7 5 speed, or 2.5 5 speed). Naturally I am interested in the 3.2 6 speed model :) They would provide whoever runs the group buy with a free LSD. If it were me I would pass that along to everybody and collect 11 orders at $775 plus whatever it costs to obtain the OEM diff and send to them (maybe one could be rented from Woody or someone that has a transmission laying around)

From reading some of the other threads, it sounds like install is not an easy DIY and there are some adjustments or something that need to be made when installing it...

If someone wants to run this group buy I can supply the contact info for the company.

Edit: isn't the 986 S transmission the same as the 996 transmission (although something has to be different since they turn the wheels in a different direction?). If the diff is the same maybe we could jump on that 996 group buy and get it moving again?
The only transmission I can keep on the shelves is the 2.7 5 speed. As far as I know the 986 and 996 6 speed transmissions are mostly the same. I have a 996 6 speed in pieces. Let me know what you need from that trans

DWBOX2000 02-26-2017 06:27 PM
Anyone know what G8620-10 is? I googled and came up with nothing. Could my sticker be a misprint?

paulofto 02-27-2017 08:06 AM
I see this was asked in other threads (because I searched) but there doesn't appear to be an answer. My 2003 S has a 'G8620-103' which is a six speed, but what does the '103' mean? I know '001' is non LSD and '002' is LSD. I see no info or reference to '103' anywhere.:confused:

Thanks.

Gelbster 02-27-2017 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulofto (Post 528518)
I see this was asked in other threads (because I searched) but there doesn't appear to be an answer. My 2003 S has a 'G8620-103' which is a six speed, but what does the '103' mean? I know '001' is non LSD and '002' is LSD. I see no info or reference to '103' anywhere.:confused:

Thanks.
you found the photos in this thread ?
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/47018-gearbox-code-numbers.html
&
http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/59344-gearbox-8620-1003-boxtser-s-04-2003-a.html
see "Varianten Index" in the post by Smallblock

paulofto 02-28-2017 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster (Post 528520)
Yes I saw all the pictures in this thread and the reference made by 'Smallblock' in the other thread. The search function found it all like it should. However, it still doesn't explain what the '103' means. I see the 'VARIENTENINDEX' is '1' and the 'ZAEHLNUMMER' is '3'. Although I own a Porsche I don't actually speak German but the former translates to 'Variant Index' and the latter 'Count Number'. Still quite meaningless even in English.

So, what does it mean?


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