If you were in my shoes, what would you do?
 

My 2003 Boxster S now has 117k miles on it. I was quoted $4,000 to do a IMS Solution upgrade and $3,000 for a LN IMS bearing upgrade. Please note I have a Tiptronic transmission, so the labor cost is higher. From my understanding the engine has to come out with the Tiptronic trans. EDIT: This may not be the case after checking some more on it.

So, if you were in my shoes with a engine with that many miles on it.

Would you

Have the IMSB upgrade done?

or

Leave as is, and get another engine when this one fails?


Either way the engine has to be pulled. EDIT: This may not be the case after checking some more on it.


.

At this point keep driving as is. Put the money towards a lower mileage Boxster or if this one is a keeper put the money towards an engine rebuild.

I should have been clear on that part. Yes, it's a keeper. I love this car, I will own this car until I die.

mine is at 114k, and i'm having similar thoughts.. i have a few cars so the 986 is not necessary as a daily driver,.. mine is a 6 speed so i'm thinking that when the clutch needs doing, i'll drop the engine and transmission and do the IMS, RMS, and perhaps give it a partial rebuild.

The 986 is getting on a bit now, prices have started to firm up and a completely OEM car with matching chassis, engine and gearbox numbers from the build sheet, with a good documented history is going start appreciating as the hacked and chopped ones find their way to the scrapyards.

Having just rebuilt the front suspension, replaced the steering rack, with a body shell with zero corrosion, i see it as a future classic and so worth keeping tip top.

I'm guessing that your research has lead you to the decision that it's LN or nothing? It does clearly seem to be the best retrofit. If I didn't have anything else more fun to do with $3-4k, I'd probably go ahead and have it done. I usually have other things I'd rather spend it on though, and after I spent the money, I'd still probably worry about having one of the other failure modes on my (now more expensive) engine.

Are you sure that the engine has to come out on a tip? Once the flywheel is off, I'm not seeing much difference between the jobs. Of course, with the engine out, it's an opportunity to also get the chain ramps and some other wear items.
Personally, I'd change the IMSB myself and choose one of the lower cost solutions. "Better than the original bearing" is good enough to get me down the road another 50,000-70,000 miles 'till I fell like doing it again. Also if something fails, I would not worry about keeping a matched original engine unless I had one of the 550s.

Honestly, I'd leave it. If my memory is correct, you have the dual-row in your S as well as a tip and high mileage. From everything I've read, you would be in the super low percentile of your IMS going out. And for $4000 - that'a heck of a down payment on a new engine. Put the $4 g's into an investment, make some money off it and if the IMS goes, get yourself a new, lower mileage engine using the $4000 you've had making some money. Why fix something that odds are will never break?
Just my 2 cents.

Well I was told the engine had to come out. You got me checking into more and it does look like you can take out the Tip without taking the engine out. It is a more involving job to do then a manual trans.

That's the way I've been looking at it, but my car does have the single row IMS. JFP in PA told me the $4,000 cost for the IMS Solution was a fair price.

http://986forum.com/forums/433855-post14.html

Will say my Indy quoted me $2000 for a tip last fall. $95/hour labour rate. Cost of the bearing has gone up a bit this year with the exchange rate from US to Canadian, so prob closer to 2500 now. Unless he had a brain freeze about the Tip part.

Drive as-is. At this point, if the IMS bearing made it almost 120,000 miles, it is likely to make it all the way until some other engine component fails.

When the engine does fail, buy an 80K mile replacement engine from a salvage yard (mine cost $1,800) and have a shop swap it in ($2,500) and you can be back on the road for another 60K+ miles for around $5K. If you can do the swap yourself, you can get it done for ~$3.5K.

To me, that sounds like the more wise choice.

Gosh, I'd start with a good therapist, and work out the whole rotor edge thing ASAP...

Oh, wait. Just read post. Sorry.

I'd pull it out, trans filter & fluid, referb guides and tensioners and all that engine general stuff, and reinstall. Profit.

I felt the same way when I bought my '99 with 74K miles. After driving, racing and Axing it for 10K miles I had the LN bearing installed at 84K. The Tip transmission was pulled without the motor and the IMS, RMS replacement was done with motor in car. That was three years ago and my '99 has the same mileage as your Boxster. I looked at the stats, back then, and decided that the ceramic bearing, with a 5:1 ratio of longevity to the OEM, was the way to go and get more miles out of the OEM motor. Three years ago the entire job, with LN bearing, was $1,800. If I was looking at $4K, in todays money, to have it done my thinking would change. I would drive it until failure and look at a low mileage 2.7L Metzgar motor which can now be picked up for around $2,500 and with around $2,000 to install it I've got a little more power and a more bullet proof motor than the 2.5L which, as has been stated, had very low failure rate.
As it turns out, at 68 years of age, it looks as though my Boxster will be my last car and that's ok with me as it has been the most fun car I've ever owned.:cheers:

Another Option
 

Another option:
IMS Guardian

I had my 2002 S IMSB replaced at 140k miles a couple years ago.its also a Tip. My cost was $1200. The engine did not have to come out to do the job.

Btw the old IMSB was perfectly fine. I had it changed cause LN and JR did a great job marketing their product.

Take good care of your car with frequent oil changes and drive it like you stole it. When it finally goes, you had to take the motor out anyways right? Just replace it with a shiny 4.0L :D

So here's a contrarian view...

If you plan to keep your car a long time, say past 200K miles, then the IMS solution makes economic sense compared to putting in the LN Retrofit or Gen 2 Pro. The risk you're taking is whether some other critical engine component will fail before you reach your mileage goal. And that's hard to know.

I just faced the same issue when the clutch needed replacing at 125K miles. My camshaft deviations were close to out of spec. So I had the shop replace the chain rails, the variocam solenoids and thoroughly inspect the lifters and other items before making the IMSB decision. I went ahead and installed the Solution. If my bet doesn't pay out so be it. I'd rather bet on an engine I know over the lifetime of the car rather than one that comes from wreck in a junkyard.

BTW: My OEM bearing looked great - almost brand new - when it was take out and it didn't wobble at all. When I removed the outer seal, however, it was clear the grease had been washed out. It was only a matter of time before it would have failed.

Please let me know where such an engine can be found. Thanks.

If you look around on eBay there were three, as I recall, that were low miles (less than 50K) and two were priced less than $2,500 and one at $2,700. Two of them had Utube videos showing the motors running. A little leg work on your part will eventually produce one. If you are seriously in the market for one I will be happy to email you a notice and link when I next come across one.

Yeah, standard M96, right. It's the Mezger part I was interested in. :cheers:

While all good points - spending $4000 on a part that may or may not break (and it's not even 50/50 - there is far more chance it will never break) can be a bit overwhelming for some. Really, replacing the IMS to me is akin to 'taking out engine insurance'. It's really personal choice how one wants to spend their money.
IMS seems to be more a personal opinion vs. hard fact unfortunately. If only Porsche would release more info, we might all have a cleared view of the actual percentage/risks.

Or you could consider roller bearings or .. or...


:D:D:D

Yeah I was thinking of just waiting until the rotors cut through the IMS. :p

I don't have the tools to do the job. I could buy them, but with the cheapest price on the IMS Solution at $1,698.75 then buying all the tools and replacement fluids I'd probably be close to the $4,000 mark.

Always wanted to know if you had your IMSB upgraded?

That crosses my mind too, spending $4k and the bearing is fine.

I like your thinking! :D

What I've read (and I'm not saying it is correct) is that Mezger (Metzger, Metsger) designed the 2.7L motor and there are two versions of it, a three chain and a five chain. I have not been able to find out how to tell the difference. I recall that I heard about the motors and how hardy they are from a post I read from Jake Raby. Perhaps he can enlighten us on the 2.7L.
I've seen the prices on used low miles ones drop because no one wants them they all seem to prefer an upgrade to the 3.2 or 3.4. It's the same with the 2.5L, used ones are appearing for under $2K.
I've also wondered if the 2.9 would fit in an early Boxster, what is involved in the install, how much a used one is going for and how well they are built.
I would be looking for a plug and play swap.

I agree with THStone, post #9. I just bought my 2003 Boxster S Tiptronic this month, with 102,500 miles on it and I knew that the IMS bearing was an issue so I researched this topic as much as possible before making the decision to buy the car. The majority of failures seem to occur well before such elevated mileage is attained, so a well-used car may be a better prospect than a low mileage garage queen. I am an eternal optimist, and if 20% fail, I see it as 80% being just fine, and I kind of like those odds.

The Boxster (and 996) M96 was either a 5 chain (1997-2002) or 3 chain (2003-04). The Mezger engine is a whole different animal, from the TT or GT2:

Technology explained:

Think race car engine (i.e. $$$$$$$$).

Thanks Norm, excellent information and clears up my confusion. I would still opt for a 2.7L as a replacement for a 2.5L or paying $4K for an IMS upgrade. I'd drive the 2.5 until it died then pick up a low mileage 2.7L and had a few hp to boot.:cheers:

not if you spec racing guys keep buying up all the 2.5's!

You got a deal there.

Would the IMS Guardian trigger in time to save the engine? Install that and the screw on type oil filter to keep the debris out of the engine?

Geez, just checked on the IMS Guardian and it's $439.00 for the system.

I have a magnetic drain plug. What about doing the spin on filter, that's supposed to keep metal from getting into the engine, right?

No. In order for the system to alarm, there has to be a minimum amount of ferrous debris circulating in the engine, which means it is already all over the inside of the engine, which has to come out and apart.

While the spin on filter will do a better job of trapping materials than the OEM style, you need to remember that the debris starts off inside the engine and gets picked up by the oil, and carried to the filter; so it is already spread around before the filter even gets a chance to remove it.

Neither of these products are designed to prevent catastrophic failures, that requires preemptive steps by the owner, such as replacing the IMS before it starts to crap out. Both the Guardian and the spin on filter can help reduce the amount of damage from an IMS failure, but cannot prevent it from happening.

I think you should get the IMSB done.
If you're going to keep it, you could easily get another 100k out of that engine.

I've had mine done and one big advantage is that I enjoy driving the car so much more, now that I'm not always wondering in the back of my mind about the IMSB destroying the engine.

Just picture yourself being in the middle of nowhere with a detonated engine. That would be a bad day. I know it can happen anyway but, I feel a lot better with that extra insurance.

Hope that helps! :cheers:

Just because you have a high mileage engine doesn't mean your home free with the IMSB. Partial bearing seal failure is one of the main reasons IMSBs break. Leaking seals allow oil to wash out the bearing's grease over an extended time period, but the oil flow through the leaking seal isn't enough to fully lubricate the bearing.

Low mileage cars see more failures because their seals sit in acidic oil for extended times and degrade. For various reasons, seals degrade more slowly in high mileage cars so one sees failures happening less. Eventually, high mileage cars will see problems too its just nobody seems to know when.

If you do nothing else, it's probably a good idea to remove the outer seal of the OEM IMSB when your in there changing the clutch. Personally, I wouldn't and didn't stop there when I changed my clutch. If your doing the work yourself, it just the cost of parts that you're saving. I'd bet some Forum member would be willing to lend or rent the special tools to you.

Giller, mind telling me who your Indy is?

I've decided not to do the IMSB upgrade. I want to see how many miles I get out of it, at 117k miles right now.

Honestly, I think there is way too much fear mongering going on about the IMSB. Not the part that if it goes, it's a catastrophic engine failure. It's the people saying you need to replace it right now, that is the fear mongering.

An engine is going to eventually give out. One day I will replace this engine, that's a given because I plan to keep this car until I die or it doesn't get involved in an accident.


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Mike at German Autotech in Waterloo. Busy little shop, lots of good reviews online.