IMS Question
 

Sorry if this has been covered before but I haven't been able to find a clear answer. I have as 2001 boxster S with over 100k miles. A top priority for me was to replace my IMS bearing to the LM Engineering version but recently I have read horror stories where the IMS Bearing failed after it was replaced and I also read that if your bearing lasted past a certain mileage it probably won't fail. Should I or should I not replace the bearing. Any advice would be appreciated.

I don't know what "horror stories" you've heard, but the LN bearing is bulletproof.

I suppose that depends on who you believe. There are plenty of reports of failures after the "upgrade", though LN and their associates always claim that this is due to improper install.

Relying solely on the manufacturers word about the reliability of their product is tough.
Without independent analysis, you either have to take their word for it or take your chances with OEM. I'm in the latter camp.
I'm not shelling out thousands for something that might be better, but that's just me. The best advice that I can give is to read, read, read and come to your own conclusion.

What members here have had THEIR own LN bearing fail? I've read plenty of threads where the OE failed but not one where the ceramic bearing did.

naturally. how many 986/996 cars were sold? 100K+
how many LN bearings have been fitted? a few thousand? and those would also all be new and less likely to have failed
So of course there would be statistically more reports of the original bearing failures vs and after market replacement.

But both combined all still significantly lower than the number of UNREPORTED unfailed (and likely never to fail) original bearings.

How long has the LN bearing been around for? Wondering what the sample size of the replacement actually is?

Here are the facts. Draw your own conclusions.

Porsche reported in the Eisen class action lawsuit that about 8% of single row and less than 1% of dual row bearings failed in model years 98 through 05.

Out of 15,000+ installations, about 5 LN bearings have failed or three one-hundredths of one percent.

I've read most of these posts over time. One member with a good reputation in the industry said there were possibly 2 failure both cause by improper installation. Other failures were due to improper timing procedures or car that were not prequalified for a replacement. IE they had chain issues cam issues or other internal problems.

15000 is a good sample size.....do we know how long they have been around for? Wondering what the proven longevity is.

Is your car a manual trans? If so wait until it needs a clutch and just change it-especially if you plan to go another 100,000 miles.http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1406384354.jpg
Thankfully my 2002 needed a clutch at 80,000 miles shortly after I bought it. I was in the "leave it alone" camp. It would surely have failed.

The LN IMS Retrofit - it's dual and single row IMS bearing designs - was created in 2009.

I believe that LN considers its dual row bearing a permanent fix. With zero dual row failures, they may be right.

On the other hand, LN recommends owners treat its 1st generation single row bearing as a maintenance item because its load carrying is far less than its dual row counterpart. The maintenance interval is 50,000 miles or every four years. That said, LN single row bearings may last far longer.

LN introduced its Gen 2 Pro bearing at the beginning of this year to eliminate the single row Retrofit's load carrying concern.

I know I have seen it discussed in some thread previously, but how do you determine if your car is a single row or dual row IMS model. I recall someone talking about serial number or build date or something, can anyone advise me?


Also, what is the easiest way to find the engine number, or where is it located on the engine? I have all the documents from the original purchase and there is no engine numbers listed anywhere.

Thanks

Thanks for all the input. As I see, the LM bearing is reliable but I still have one more question: Can I rely on my oem bearing to not fail since it has gone 100k+ miles without an issue or are these failure just a matter of time?

What YEAR is your car? :confused:

The 2000 and 2001 crossover years may have mixed up single row and dual row IMS bearings, and it turns out there is NO WAY to tell via VIN, engine serial number, etc. Sadly if you have one of those years, there is no way to tell FOR CERTAIN which you have. You have to pull the exhaust/tranny/clutch/flywheel and look. Having said that the vast majority of 2000 cars have the dual row IMS bearing.

The engine serial number is pin-stamped on a raised flat spot on the passenger side of the engine.

It's kind of beside the point. I changed mine at 70,000 miles and it was in perfect condition. Still full of grease even, which is rare. However, every time I hit the key I was waiting for the *BOOM*. It's all about your tolerance for uncertainty. A 100K Boxster is worth not much more than a roller anyway. You could keep driving it until doomsday finally arrives and then wash your hands of it, if you're so inclined. But if it's ruining your *enjoyment* of the car (which is really kind of the point), then change it.

Hehe...I'm going to drive mine until it blows up, then go electric. ;)

OP, there is no way of knowing. It's a roll of the dice. The real question is, "are you a gambling man, or the play it safe type?"

2001, sigh!

Simple answer. I purchased my Boxster to enjoy driving it. I did not enjoy driving it before installing the LN bearing. I now can't wait to drive it as often as possible.

The big question for those of us with the non-removable-without-opening-the-engine bearing (I have a 2003 S with a 2006 engine) is what to do, or not to do.

I've decided that about all I can do is drive it and forget about the IMS bearing. I drive the hell out of it, and love to get in and go anywhere. 95,000 miles (60,000 on the new engine) and so far so good. When (or if) the engine blows up, I'll ship the car to Jake Raby :D!

I think it comes down to how you feel about the risk of it failing. My 04 Tip with low miles seemed a high risk to me (at 8% failure rate), so I had the IMS Solution installed almost a year ago. Since then I have had much more enjoyment from driving the car, so to me it was worth the considerable expense. If I had a car with the dual row or later single row bearing, I probably would not have done the upgrade. And my old single row bearing was still OK, but fairly dry and did not spin freely, so I suspect it was on the way to failure.

Having been one of the earlier guys to do a DIY Jake Raby / LN Engineering Ceramic Hybrid IMS Bearing install I will say this......both Jake Raby / LN Engineering did their homework way more than extensively. I had spent probably 50 hours reading and researching before I decided to go ahead and do the install. 2 of my best friends / guys in my wedding have engineering doctorates and work very high up for aeronautical aviation companies, after sending them links containing info on said bearing and background on the original Porsche IMS bearing approach they said without hesitation to proceed with Jake's IMS Retrofit. IMO if you are concerned about the IMS there is no better solution than to have it retrofitted with Jake Raby's IMS Bearing Retrofit option. Here is what I did while having an issue with the transmission addressed:

IMS, RMS, Tranny R & R Tips - 986 Series (Boxster, Boxster S) - RennTech.org Forums

Here's my notes on installing the LN bearing myself:

IMS bearing installation - a new owner's retrospective - 986 Series (Boxster, Boxster S) - RennTech.org Forums

There have been a few classic single row failures, but keep in mind that over ten thousand engines have been retrofitted using that bearing (20,000 total using the various technologies that we've developed with LN) so a few failures are to be expected.

There have been zero failures of the Classic dual row, Single Row Pro, or IMS Solution retrofit products.

That said, what creates failures i the installer more times than not. Too many shops now treat an IMSB Retrofit like a brake job after doing dozens of the jobs. They fight the clock to do a job faster and faster, to make more and more money. They do not follow protocol and fail to qualify engines for a retrofit procedure. Qualification means to ensure the current bearing is not failing, and anything else in the engine, for that matter. Wear debris suspended in oil can kill an IMSB in 300 miles, and the finer the particles the easy they suspend in oil and the more damage they do.

Here we will break the 400 mark for IMS Retrofits. This is more than double the number that any other shop in the world has done. 399 installs ago we carried out the very first IMS Retrofit using commercially available parts, and that was the very first LN IMSB ever installed. We developed the process and developed the pre qualification procedures, and we do not make the IMSB Retrofit a quick process, and we pre- qualify every engine to be retrofitted and well as cary out an extensive post- process evaluations.

Having installed 400 units isn't what matters most, having 400 installs with ZERO failures is what counts. Done right an IMSB retrofit isn't a quick, simple process.

I think we've understood long ago that the LN bearing is a hundred times better than the OEM bearing. You'd be silly to think that they are more subject to failures than a OEM bearing. Beside, I've never read anywhere that LN guaranty @ 101% that it won't fail.

The truth is ALL mechanical parts are prone to failure. Simply because of what they are (high school physics?) or in most occasions because they were installed by a less than experienced installer.

What is it with people these days?! They think the guys at LN are magicians or just looking for a life-long warranty on their Pcars?

OP, I'm at the shop and a Chinese dude/colleague is just looking over my shoulder and saying this to you "MAN THE F&^% UP" (I teach them slang like this! there a great use of it)

Alright, I'm sold. Sounds to me like a worthwhile upgrade - even just for the piece of mind. Certainly want to enjoy my Box....not worry about every little noise and rattle. What do people recommend as the probable life of the LN? Should it be switched out every 50K? 100k? Thoughts?

Just get a qualified engineer to install it is all what matters bud. STATS don't lie, quality readers should feel this (naturally!)

These bearings are good for 500,000miles (if you rely on spec sheets)

Mind you a lot can go wrong with your (and my) crappy little M96 lolll

With 100,000 miles you are WAY past the time to ONLY worry about the IMS. With that amount of mileage, there are numerous other components that are just as likely (or maybe more so) to fail - are you going to do anything about those? If not, then just keep driving it, change the oil often, and when it blows replace it. Start saving for a rebuild or replacement now.

For the record, my engine blew at 136,000 miles with 89 track days due to valve lifter failure. I suppose that I should have installed the Valve Lifter Retrofit. Just joking, that doesn't exist and neither does the Timing Chain Sentinel or Carbide Chain Tensioner Guides, but I'm sure you get the point. Oh, and when the engine was torn down for rebuild, the original IMS bearing was in great shape. Your mileage may vary.

I rin the IMS Gaurdian on a dual row Boxster. I bought the car with less than 80000 on a clutch that had been replaced once. I have the position that if the bearing fails before the next clutch job, it will be dealt with at that point. If the lasts until the next clutch job, I will replace the bering with the IMS at that point. If I am so inclined at the clutch job, I will also consider sending the entire car to Jake Raby to have the Stage 1 setup installed. Intending to to essentially have the engine prepped for wat I would hope to be prep for another 100k of service prep completed. I fully expect to be installing new tops, suspension, hoses, water pumps etc going. I want to keep the car going until the paint wears out.
N