Boxster V8

[BoxsterLS376]

I'm sure the audi motor will do OK, I'm just not a fan~

The nice thing about the LSx swap is the ease of connecting the motor. If you buy the GM crate kit it gives you pretty complete instructions and in reality with about 3 wires and a fuel supply you can get it running so there is a big advantage there.

One misconception that I would like to clear up on the LSx install is the amount of "cutting". Don't get me wrong, there is a bit to cut out, but once you see the process yourself and see what you are cutting out, you will realize that it is not a big deal at all. The biggest portion is making a new cover for it (which I am still struggling with, but haven't spent tons of time on it), although if I had planned a little better I would have made it before the motor was in place.

Hind sight is 20/20 right?

Also regarding the axle failures, really since I put the axle spacers in I have not had any issues and have given it hell in the lower gears a few times~ All seems good~

Right now my conversion has a little over 1,300 miles on it and with the exception of the mysterious "idle higher then expected" check engine light popping up from time to time the car has performed pretty much flawlessly for the last 600~ miles.

Anytime you take a motor from one car and put it into another you are going to run into problems and it is going to take a lot of fabrication and figuring unless someone makes a true "bolt in" kit, which to be honest I don't think will ever happen.

[Nerv]

Originally Posted by BoxsterLS376

Anytime you take a motor from one car and put it into another you are going to run into problems and it is going to take a lot of fabrication and figuring unless someone makes a true "bolt in" kit, which to be honest I don't think will ever happen.

That will happen, that is exactly what we are doing. As a matter of fact, I will not let this kit ever go out the door unless it is a true "bolt in" kit.

[Pdwight]

I thin the Audi engine doing 350 HP would be about perfect for our cars, I am no racer but would welcome this if..................;

The Audi kit is truly a bolt in Kit with very minimal cutting and fabrication. Also would the Audi kit allow us to keep our trunk or is that a goner no matter what ??

While we are talking engines why has no one explored or talked about the small V8 engines out of a Cayenne ?

[jaykay]

Cayenne V8! Maybe a good fit but perhaps too expensive???

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by Nerv

That will happen, that is exactly what we are doing. As a matter of fact, I will not let this kit ever go out the door unless it is a true "bolt in" kit.

Go Nerv Go!

[BoxsterLS376]

So in reading back through this thread a bit I'd like to add a bit more...

Regarding the insurance conversation... I use Progressive and using the website they only allow like an additional $3000 in modification before you have to call them... So I called and long story short I simply insured the car for $40,000~ No question as to what was done etc. just said I have put a lot of money into it and want it insured for $XXX. Done and done.

Also wanted to chime in about the price/platform... First off starting with a base boxster is just dumb. dumb dumb dumb. The S suspension and brakes do OK at best with my car and I think they need to be upgraded to be on par with the performance of the motor. If you put the V8 into a base model you will NEED to upgrade the brakes and suspension or else it will just be dangerous.

For the price difference in base models vs. "S" models it makes no sense at all to "engineer" a kit for the base model. Anyone who is gonna spend the kind of dough to do a V8 conversion won't give a rats ass about saving $3-4,000 on the cost of the car, quit being cheap and get an S model.

Also to say the kit will be more expensive but somehow the motors are cheaper? I went the expensive route and bought a brand new motor from Chevy and all said and done was under $8K, brand new with a warranty.

How much are Audi motors going for anyway?

[DarkStar]

BoxsterLS376, Thank you! Maybe its just me, since I've done chevy swaps on Fords. Big Turbo 4cyl Mitsubishi Swaps on Geo Metros and built cars with drag slicks up to caged toys with 44" Tires, beadlocks and 1 tons. Fab work isn't something new to me. And I've followed your entire build and the cutting you've done is minor! A lil fitment cutting and a new cover and its in.

I do agree with BC, the Renegade "Kit" is a hack. But its pretty well built.

350whp... Enough.... Hardly but to each their own.

I'm not against this proposition. I'm actually highly interested in seeing it grow. Porsche Performance just isn't reasonable. There is no logic in spending a ton of money for hardly any gain when there are options for spending less for more gain.

Like BoxsterLS376 Said, he went the WAYYY expensive route. 8 Grand For only 480hp, But he got a warranty (ehh, not bad). I love his build and hope to speak to him soon regarding my swap. (Yeah you still haven't responded to me on youtube :'( lol) But as I said earlier, Junkyard 5.3L Cast Iron (80lbs heavier than the aluminum block) or 5.3L Aluminum LS Engines, can produce 450whp with no turbo on them. People are doing it every day in old muscle cars by cam, head work, and some tuning. And thats daily driven reliable. You can pickup Stock LS1's with Transmission, Harness and ECU these days for 1200 bucks from Trans Ams, Camaro's, GTO's.

The reason were arguing the fact, is because say you do fail.... Its not that big of a deal. As I've stated a few times, I've been in the car world, building cars that is... for quite some time. Things can go wrong. How much is it to fix said wrong, with which motor. I can think of a few other engines that can produce 1000hp, save TONS of space and are a dime a dozen in the world, But reliable.... Not soo much. Can be! But risky.

[bc993]

[QUOTE=DarkStar;467714]

350whp... Enough.... Hardly but to each their own.

So your current 250 hp has been enough for ?? 14 years? To each their own HA HA.

BoxsterLS376 said:

"Anytime you take a motor from one car and put it into another you are going to run into problems and it is going to take a lot of fabrication and figuring unless someone makes a true "bolt in" kit, which to be honest I don't think will ever happen."

bc993:
As you know I've been following your thread from the start.
WT#! You mean you're not going to give us a KIT?
I'm a Network Engineer - Business Development guy. My fabrication skills are non existent. Have no trouble changing oil, spending a weekend updating suspension parts but that's it. I spend my free time driving my car, golfing, flyfishing in spring/summer and shooting ducks/pheasants in the fall.

BoxsterLS376 said:
Also wanted to chime in about the price/platform... First off starting with a base boxster is just dumb. dumb dumb dumb. The S suspension and brakes do OK "

bc993:
Have to disagree with you. The only thing the S brings now is the 6-Speed trans.
On a 15 yr old car I'm going to replace the suspension 1st thing.
ROW MO30 or PSS9
Front Brakes can be bolted on: 996 or S Calipers (no need for rear imho) just need to update front rotors.
Also GT3 control arms

Now the only other issue for base vs S is the radiators. So I would do exactly the same thing you did and replace 15 yr old radiator with S radiators.

I have found some almost perfect base boxsters with like new interiors and near perfect original paint and it would cost me much more to find an S in that type of condition.

[bc993]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

BoxsterLS376, Thank you! Maybe its just me, since I've done chevy swaps on Fords. Big Turbo 4cyl Mitsubishi Swaps on Geo Metros and built cars with drag slicks up to caged toys with 44" Tires, beadlocks and 1 tons. Fab work isn't something new to me. And I've followed your entire build and the cutting you've done is minor! A lil fitment cutting and a new cover and its in.

.

Yeah sure you did but your boxster still only has 250 HP right?

[BoxsterLS376]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Like BoxsterLS376 Said, he went the WAYYY expensive route. 8 Grand For only 480hp, But he got a warranty (ehh, not bad). I love his build and hope to speak to him soon regarding my swap. (Yeah you still haven't responded to me on youtube :'( lol) But as I said earlier, Junkyard 5.3L Cast Iron (80lbs heavier than the aluminum block) or 5.3L Aluminum LS Engines, can produce 450whp with no turbo on them. People are doing it every day in old muscle cars by cam, head work, and some tuning. And thats daily driven reliable. You can pickup Stock LS1's with Transmission, Harness and ECU these days for 1200 bucks from Trans Ams, Camaro's, GTO's.

Ahh yes I remember seeing your post on Youtube but to be honest I don't have time to respond to things in more then one place which is why I redirect people here to ask questions! I don't recall your exact comment but based on your statement think I recall...

It's not to say a used motor wouldn't be just fine for this, but there were a number of reasons I went the route I did. The key word in your statement is "CAN"!

First off I don't know where you are buying complete LS1 motors with transmissions, ECU and wiring harness for $1200, cause they ain't that cheap around here!!! I'm sure you "CAN" find them out there for that price, but very few and far between~

For reference a quick Ebay search for LS1 engine will show the cheapest engine/trans out there right now is $3000 with an automatic... perhaps you can get a complete 5.3 for that price, but regardless, what are you getting for that price?

I wasn't going to bother doing this project to put a 300HP motor in place of the 250HP motor, plus what you are getting for that price is a used 100K+ mile motor and while the motor itself may be good for 200K or more, all of the little things on the motor have 100K too so you will start to have issues like coils going bad etc.

By the time you take a "junkyard" motor, rebuild it to a point that I would be satisfied with it from a reliability (bearings, seals etc.), and satisfied with power (400+), you can easily spend more then the $8k I spent on a brand new motor, that makes 480HP, and has a warranty AND I DON'T HAVE TO PUT ANY EXTRA WORK INTO!!!!!

The math is simple... just the basics and doing the work yourself~

Used LS1 motor = $3000~
Built cylinder heads = $1500~
Big camshaft = $600~
Rebuild kit = $800~
Upgraded rockers = $500~

Assuming that your used motor came with ECU/wiring then I would have spent at least $6400 to rebuild a used 100K mile motor. That is assuming that everything else in the motor is good and it doesn't need any major parts or machine work.

Could you just buy a used motor and throw it in, sure, but part of the idea was to make an easily replicated platform to build these cars on. It is just easier to call up Chevy and say SEND ME THIS.... and cut a check, then it would be to source used motors, rebuild them and then deal with the possible problems.


The thought process behind my build was to come up with a reasonable replacement for the lousy motors Porsche put into these things, that could be easily replicated.

Let us also not forget how much more money you have to spend on the little things which do add up fast... Motor mounts, transmission mounts, cooling and exhaust system, which I'm afraid to add up lately cause I already blew my budget but was something like $5-$6K... SO FAR. Car is almost done, but that is just the conversion.... I haven't gotten into brakes, suspension etc.


I definitely applaud what the NERV guys are trying to do but question their logic on many things... time for another post~

[GTA_G20]

I hear ya man

Some people want to drop 3.4s 3.6s 3.8s in. Some people like LN built motors . Some want the same motor with an ims retro fit. Some want Chevys .

I like the fact that options are being explored.

Just wish Nerv has the chance to share what hes got before getting flamed for what someone else did and why nobody should consider his swap. If this was available two months ago I would've done this over a used 2,5

[patssle]

I was pretty close mentally to wanting to go the V8 route with a local roller that was perfect for it. But it just seems like an ENORMOUS ton of work if you do it all yourself. And I did a 914-6 conversion myself which was a lot of work so I'm not shy from engine swaps. But man it was just so tempting.

[Nerv]

Thanks for joining in the discussion GTA_G20 (and everyone else of course!)

I will share some shots of progress soon, we just need a little more time, we have a very important project to finish for a client that needs to be out the door before serious time can be put back onto the Porsche.

Hopefully after the first kit is out there it will bring in enough to warrant it getting priority over other projects but at this point it has to be considered a expense until proven otherwise.

Here is my scan of the transmission for 3D CAD purposes:



And the front of the engine bay:



The ABZ oil pan:



Once the modeling is complete the production will be relatively easy. I understand the speculation in regards to "Vaporware" but in my experience once you have a professional set of models/drawings, that is a large portion of the work, especially when you have you own CNC machining equipment and software that can machine toolpaths from the data directly like we do.

Accurate 3D scanning has really sped up the process for us and some of the work we have been doing for clients. I'm confident this project will be no different.

Now I know it isn't nearly enough, but it is proof we are working on this! Thanks again everyone for your interest.

This will be a clean professional kit when finished.

[bc993]

Originally Posted by Nerv

Thanks for joining in the discussion GTA_G20 (and everyone else of course!)

I will share some shots of progress soon, we just need a little more time, we have a very important project to finish for a client that needs to be out the door before serious time can be put back onto the Porsche.

Hopefully after the first kit is out there it will bring in enough to warrant it getting priority over other projects but at this point it has to be considered a expense until proven otherwise.

Here is my scan of the transmission for 3D CAD purposes:



And the front of the engine bay:



The ABZ oil pan:



Once the modeling is complete the production will be relatively easy. I understand the speculation in regards to "Vaporware" but in my experience once you have a professional set of models/drawings, that is a large portion of the work, especially when you have you own CNC machining equipment and software that can machine toolpaths from the data directly like we do.

Accurate 3D scanning has really sped up the process for us and some of the work we have been doing for clients. I'm confident this project will be no different.

Now I know it isn't nearly enough, but it is proof we are working on this! Thanks again everyone for your interest.

This will be a clean professional kit when finished.

Hey Nerv anything new to report on the progress of the Audi swap?

[DarkStar]

What? BC I'm not quite sure what your getting at? 250hp has NEVER been ok in my eyes. Porsche may think so, Purists may think so. But the automotive enthusiast community for the entire history of the wheel does not. The world of enthusiasts have thrived to produced a better car than factory. Honda's with thousands of HP, Muscle Cars with the agile suspension of a sports car. Cars with Jet Engines. You purists keep on this binge of "The car is perfect the way it is"... No its not! Not in any way is it perfect. There are a thousand cars, including cars you would insult like a Honda or Toyota that are more perfect than the Porsche. Especially the Porsche Boxster. You want a Porsche that is perfect. I give you the 918! And even then, there are purists that talk crap about it. "Electric Motor, AWD! It doesn't look like an old 60's Porsche, RAWR! How Dare them!" Just Stop! Yeah sure I did? Actually, Yes! I did! And Have, And Do! Every single Day! I did not purchase my car for its performance, or lack there of. Its the slowest vehicle I've owned. Speed and performance were not on my mind when I was signing the paper work. In fact a little of the opposite. I was leaving a high horsepower, fast AWD sports car with little reliability that was getting me no where in life, to move onto a car, (It didn't have to be the Porsche, and it wasn't my first choice) that would help me build my credit up. Something I failed to do as a youngster. Something I let slip. I chose the Porsche because it at the time was the only car worth a damn I could finance. It was either the Porsche, or a Ford Focus. Mind you, I didn't need to finance, I could have kept going without car payments, But I wanted them. So what better choice. So don't come in here thinking the Boxster is soo high and mighty, it isn't. I'm sorry if that doesn't make friends around here but... Oh Well! Its the truth. Live with it, or move on.

And whos being negative? I thought we were talking shop.... Nerv isn't being flamed one bit. At least not by anyone I've seen. Were all simply talking shop. Something car people do. We talk, we nag, we argue, we contemplate and we daydream. I'm completely for what he is doing. More Options, the better.

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

[Pdwight]

04 Cayenne Turbo AWD Porsche 955 Complete Engine 4 5 Motor V8 144 588 | eBay

02 Boxster s rwd Porsche 986 Complete Engine 3 2 Motor M96 21 M96 21 64 590 | eBay

and if you want to go big

Complete 3.6L M96.03 Dropout Engine Porsche 911 Carrera 996 320hp M96 2002-05

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by Pdwight

04 Cayenne Turbo AWD Porsche 955 Complete Engine 4 5 Motor V8 144 588 | eBay

02 Boxster s rwd Porsche 986 Complete Engine 3 2 Motor M96 21 M96 21 64 590 | eBay

and if you want to go big

Complete 3.6L M96.03 Dropout Engine Porsche 911 Carrera 996 320hp M96 2002-05

10k for 320hp to the fly... a prime example of fail. The Boxsters 3.2 can be turbocharged to produce much more for less. Even the expensive TPC Turbo kit is ubder 10 grand, and has room for lots of extra.



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[BoxsterLS376]

So I eluded to some of these things in my previous posts but I would like to point them out directly...

1. Starting with a base Boxster. What would you not focus this package towards people who are more performance oriented? You have 2 types of people who would consider this conversion, people who already own and love their cars, but have suffered an engine failure, or people who are going to buy these cars to convert to a V8.

... So take option one, the guys who went out and bought a non-s boxster, owned it for 10+ years and have been satisfied with it, do they all of a sudden feel the need for speed and want a V8 in their base boxster? Probably not...

... Option two~ people who go out and buy these cars with the intention of putting a V8 in it... Why would they not go buy an "S"? It is a much better platform, the suspension, brakes, cooling system, so someone building one on a budget would either have to upgrade these things or be driving in an unsafe car... not to say people don't do this all the time, but it is one more thing you will be forced to spend money on, when you could start with an "S" and be much better and safer to begin with.

To use the argument that you "can find nice base Boxsters cheap" is completely invalid, because you can find VERY nice "S" models very cheap.

2. Engine choice... so you are building this entire platform on a motor that hasn't been built or put into a car in over 15 years?? Why would you do that? I'm sure the motors are out there, but why? Do a quick Ebay search for your Audi ABZ engine... I came up with 3 results... 3 and one of those is in the UK! Sure they are cheap, but they are cheap for a reason!!! Just wait til you have to get that pig through emissions and have to deal with Catalytic converter check engine lights etc...

3. "no cutting direct bolt in" - this will be interesting to see. So I guess for ease of installation not having to cut anything to get it in would be nice. But it was mentioned that you could bolt the stock motor back in... again, WHY??? Are you trying to preserve these cars so that in 50 years they can be converted back to original and be worth half a million bucks like a 356 speedster?

NO ONE. NO. ONE. Who does this conversion will EVER be concerned about converting their car back to stock. EVER. NEVER EVER. EVER. These car will NEVER go back up in value unless they have a greater significance to them, ie. VIN #1 or owned by Michael Jordan. They will never be rare, there are over 300,000 Boxsters out there.

Ok I'm done ranting for now.

[smshirk]

A price point under 10k seems highly unlikely to me. If that does happen i would think you couldn't make them fast enough. Replacing an M96 motor right now is a very expensive proposition. 10k would be a real bargain for anyone wanting to keep his 986 on the road. I spent twice that to ensure mine keeps running and it wasn't even broke.

[Dlirium]

Originally Posted by smshirk

A price point under 10k seems highly unlikely to me. If that does happen i would think you couldn't make them fast enough. Replacing an M96 motor right now is a very expensive proposition. 10k would be a real bargain for anyone wanting to keep his 986 on the road. I spent twice that to ensure mine keeps running and it wasn't even broke.

But out the door for $15k is not terrible. Yes, it is > the value of the car, but that horse has left the barn. I'd *rather* spend $15k for a 500hp LSx than a 350hp Audi, but it might come down to the install. If Nerv can truly provide a the "plug and play" solution as he claims, I may forgo the 150hp (can't believe i just typed that!). The Renegade LSx install is WAY out of my skill mix, but I can bolt on some parts and drop an engine in...