Cayman 3.4 engine into Boxster S 3.2
 

Just a noob with a pitiful request for guidance to info.
I just bought a 2001 Boxster S 6 speed manual trans.Previous owner spent lot$ with Pelican for upgrades/parts. The engine developed awful rod knock within a few days of purchase!Babbitt bearing(?) swarf in the oil pan and spin-on filter. A rebuild will cost more than I paid for the car .Very depressed.
A sympathetic buddy found me a 2006 Cayman 3.4 Tiptronic engine with only 8000 miles for only $3000 with all ancillaries but the DME -it is for a Tiptronic and mine is a 6-speed.
Got Bentley, Wayne's book ,read all I can find on this engine conversion .It seems all I need according to Wayne's helpful write-up is:
1. 7.8 DME & modify the pin-out of the connector on the Cayman motor.But is it really that straightforward?
2. ABS controller & connector from a 3.4 Cayman
3. My flywheel +clutch +6 speed trans will fit O.K.??
I already have the trans. out of my 'dead' car and was about to drop the engine & start tearing in to the knocking engine when the Cayman alternative was offered.Yes, I do all my own wrenching but complex electronics is an alien world for me.
Please tell me what I should do -rebuild or do the swap?
I already have a 'delicate' situation with the wife because of the money pit I have stupidly bought, so I don't want to screw things up further by installing an engine that won't work or produce a car w/o ABS ...I don't need a detailed explanation(although that would be great!). Just point me in the right direction. As I said ,I've got Wayne's piece just about memorized because I have read it so many times!
Either way it will make a great write-up for this Forum.http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1399739318.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/26065-3-4l-motor-swap-underway.html

Good luck.

Talk to Jake Raby....

If I bought a Porsche that developed a "death rattle" knock within a few days of purchase, I'd be confronting the seller about it.

Even with an "As-Is" condition. And then I'd contact a State agency if I didn't receive any satisfaction there. And an attorney next.

Just sayin'................

TO

Thank you -great link !
It seems "Tholyoak" and "Insite" are the Forum go-to guys for this subject.
In the link there is mention of a video to show the DME conversion procedure. Wow I do hope Insite does that! It would make him an everlasting god in the Boxster world !!
As time goes by and more engines fail and more swaps are attempted,this subject will become ever more popular!

Nope.. I don't do any conversions. All my work is internal, making that OE 3.2 into a 3.6 or 3.8.. I've done one conversion, that was one too many. Taking an engine out of one car and putting it into another doesn't captivate me.

what is the maximum displacement which can be made out of a 2.7l engine?

Getting the car to shake hands with the motor in a friendly way is doable. Getting the car to satisfy Calif smog nazis may be a lot more difficult. If you tell them about the swap it will probably never be approved by a referee cause they hate hp increases. If you don't tell and hope to fly under the radar, a DME reflash is a red flag, different exhaust manifold is a red flag, intake mods are a red flag etc. If it were mine, I would find another 3.2 with identical DME software requirements for a car I planed to keep street legal in Cali.

Thanks for the advice guys -it has helped decide to just rebuild the old motor- assuming the damage is limited.
When I showed the oil pan to a local Porsche expert he proclaimed it was debris from a failed IMS. "But it has an LN IMS -fitted less than1 year ago",I whined. He was undeterred by the fact. I asked why a failing IMS would release non magnetic phosphor bronze-like swarf . He breezily suggested I have it flat-bedded to him. I didn't ,I just came here instead.Yes ,I am still looking for a Porsche engine rebuilder in Pasadena/S.California.

Find a used motor and install it, it's not hard.

Rebuilding yours will cost way too much.

Or part the car and walk away.

A few ides:
I could buy a correct year/displacement used(107,000 miles) engine from LKQ on EBay for $3700. But although it may run, it is a total gamble on how long it would run before needing the same rebuild my current motor is begging for.
The reason for my interest in the '06 Cayman engine was it has only 8000 miles(yes eight thousand) and has the later year upgrades like VarioCam-plus ,big IMS etc.
But the unknown(to me)electronic mysteries of converting a Tiptronic engine harness/7.8 DME to a manual 7.2 DME body are overwhelming.
If that challenge frustrated Jake, I am humble enough to listen to his advice.
If someone had a plug & play kit for the electronic/DME issues I would jump at the Cayman 3.4 engine.

This is the best advice. I would phone up the seller and see how receptive he is to some kind of settlement. If no satisfaction then mention getting the services of a lawyer. You don't have to hire the lawyer right away but just the mention of a lawyer may scare him to do something for you. Then if no satisfaction then think of whether you to want to hire a lawyer or just swallow the loss and move on.

I hate to hear of this kind of cr-p.....G.

I would also agree. If the engine dies shortly after purchasing, I would be very suspicious. Yes, it could be a coincidence, but.....

contact BYProdriver as he is in socal maybe he can help you.

Thanks for that helpful suggestion-I'll follow up.
I also found a fellow Brad Roberts in Alta Loma who may be able to help.

And if you need someone to R&R the motor, I can probably help you out with a OE motor removal and replacement when the time comes.

That is very kind. Just the sort of gesture that makes the $ pain of this sad situation better.
The P.O. is a decent guy & I belive him when he says he had no clue of the impending doom. Just time to man-up. But without the help of this Forum it would be overwhelming.
My engine will drop today or tomorrow -hopefully with a tall jack beneath it !
The real challenge is the engine rebuild. I have found a special ,rebuild tool kit that others have used on EBay for around $360. That helps!
My last practical experience of this kind of engine work was on headless(monoblock=block+head cast as a single unit so no headgasket!) turbo diesel engines. That was a while ago and we made the engines so had all the tools and skills -both are now lacking for the current project!

I can relate to this thread from the seller's viewpoint a few years back. I had never seen the CEL come on while the engine was running in my old 99 Miata. I sold it in the morning to this gal and the boyfriend was with her. A few hours later I get a call from the new owner and she says in an assertive voice " I have the CEL lite on. What is it about this car you are not telling me about?" I said that I had never seen the CEL lite on before which was true. I told the owner before me and the Pres. of the local Miata club. They both offered to go down and read the codes.

The boyfriend must have settled her down and later fixed the offending O2 sensor.
If it was me that sold you your Boxster I would have refunded you some $$$ but not everybody is like me.
Guy.

Here is link to a post on this Forum where the car had exactly the swap we are discussing.So it is doable -the question is:
1. how to deal with the electronics?
2. and is a Tiptonic O.K. for a manual recipient ?
If someone covered this in all the vital details, plese tell me.
http://986forum.com/forums/boxsters-sale-wanted/47049-2000-boxster-996-3-4-engine-swap-located-souther-california-77k-orig-miles.html

That 3.4 engine is from a 2001996. If I read you correctly you were thinking of installing a 3.4 Cayman engine. The older 996 would be a more compatible swap. Same displacement but quite different w electronics.

Good catch thanks!

Potentially the failing IMSB generated debris that was suspended in the oil. At start up the factory oil filtration system bypasses a huge amount of oil. If that oil has debris suspended in it, then it is delivered to the main and rod bearing. These have an epidermis layer of copper which will appear as bronze in many instances..

So what you could have been seeing was secondary, collateral damage that was created by an underlying condition. Collateral damage is what takes these engines out.

Fortunately the original IMS was perfect ( the P.O. Gave it to me with your tool). Your new ceramic IMS is also perfect.The P.O. fitted your spin on filter and a magnetic drain plug .The filter caught a lot of the rod bearing(?) debris. So I am hoping the collateral damage is minor enough to allow a rebuild.
I am sooo glad the P.O. fitted your filter conversion!

Here is a photo of the inside of Jake's filter can opened up for inspection. The solid bits are soft bearing flakes/debris. At the bottom the 'caramel swirl' in the oil is just fine gold-like particles suspended in the oil.
The drain plug had a big pile of black sludge on it that I speculate was moly of some form.http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1399909551.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1399909606.jpg

I did the swap a few years ago. Physically the swap is not that hard. Spacers to lower the engine and transmission (the new Cayman S engine cover might take the spacers place now).

One also needs the Bentley book to see both wiring diagrams. There are some sensors that changed, so wiring changes while relatively simple, are needed. This new engine also has the variable lift solenoids, so those need wired to the DME. I think that maybe a dozen pins needs moved.

Vacuum lines are different. I also installed a IPD manifold so which made it probably even more so.

I used my existing fuel rail, so I had to make some adapters to mount to the new engine.

If I remember right there were two different 7.8 DMEs. I believe that the correct one needed was from a 03-04 Boxster / Cayman. I think the later 7.8 had more memory which gave issues in making the DME, immobolizer, and key to handshake. You will have to tow the car to a dealer so that they can flash these to all match one another.

The car ran, but a new flash was needed by Softronic to make everything correct. They did an awesome job of helping me get it exactly the way that I wanted (like removing ALL e-throttle delays).

I also kept the oil / coolant heat exchanger from my 3.2L since it was larger.

I did all work with the engine and transmission on blocks on the garage floor. That way I could ensure the wire lengths and vacuum lines were all factory looking. I installed the engine and transmission into the car together (requires the car to be lifted very high), but I didn't feel like installing them separately.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1399948980.jpg

Cheetah,
Thank you for your overview of adapting the 3.4l engine to an older Boxster. You clearly did a lot of investigative work and seem remarkably unintimidated by it ! If you had made a detailed build thread or video for it -that would have been very popular.

I contacted Softronic regarding the DME swap mentioned in this thread. The reply I got may be useful to others contemplating this 3.4l swap:
I wrote:"Hi, I am replacing the engine in a 2001 Boxster S 6-speed with the 3.4l engine from an '06 Cayman Tiptronic. The 7.2 to7.8 DME change alarms me Do you have a 'plug&play' unit to magically make the new 3.4l engine function correctly? Including the ABS ?
Thanks."
Reply:
"Sorry no on the ABS as the old system is a 7.2 and the 2006 Cayman uses a 7.8 so the coding is different and other issues like the cluster etc.
Best, Scott"
So back to the rebuild. Thank goodness the engine had the Raby/LN /Pelican spin-on oil filter mod.

With so much frag floating around in the oil I would be shopping for a clean 3.2L motor from a dismantler and give it a minor update (IMS and chain tensioners) rather than spend 100 hrs on that one only to have it potentially fail in a short time. Just too much opportunity for unseen issues to bite you later.

YMMV

It will be an interesting test of the merits of the Raby/LN/Pelican filter upgrade.
The engine did not seize. Just rod knock.Or what I speculate was rod knock.
So far there is no bearing debris anywhere but the pan and filter. But it will be a week or two before I have results from further dismantling. The oil was otherwise clear and seemingly recently changed.
If Cheetah/Softronic had a simple 3.4l conversion plan , I would have jumped at that chance because that engine has only 8000 miles,is from a friend, and is $3000. But the
'02 Boxster S/06 Cayman difference and the Tiptronic issue seem too much of an obstacle - for me at least.
If the spin-on filter saved the engine it will be a spectacular endorsement of such an inexpensive(compared to a rebuilt engine) modification.
And just to repeat ,the original 80,000+ IMS was perfect when removed and the LN dual row ceramic replacement is also perfect.No IMS hysteria here.

I know that different years had different ABS systems, but my 02 had no problems or issues with the ABS.

Hey Cheetah,
Wayne's book mentions that the 2002 has a few DME/CAN compatibility advantages compared to my '01. I have no clue if that is a critical difference that made your 02Box/Cayman 3.4l swap a success. And that is the problem - there are lots of unknowns in this swap issue and they are potentially insuperable- or trivial.
For example, if you did exactly the same procedure on my 2001 Boxster S 6-speed but used the $3000/8,000 miles '06 Cayman Tiptonic donor engine I found - would it work like yours did? I can't find anyone in the Boxster community who has done exactly that and shared the knowledge. There are lots of gung-ho generalizations ,but no comprehensive details. By comparison,ask which Miata engines fit which older/younger Miatas and there is a huge amount of comprehensive info. That's a pity because the Boxster project is many times the cost and complexity of the comparable Miata engine swap.
This project we are discussing even stressed Jake Raby!So what hope an over-enthusiastic noob Boxster mechanic like me?