True Confessions - Premium Gas

[eslai]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

I think our disagreement is a matter of degree. I agree that gingerly operating the Car can, in some instances, get you out of trouble without the expense of a Tow, but not in all circumstances. I believe one should be over-cautious when giving this type of advice to those who may be less knowledgeable.

I just read a post on another forum where the lister heard a strange noise from the engine, but didn't want to pay for a tow, and the engine was still running, so he figured he'd be OK. After the noise didn't go away in 30 minutes, he decided to pull over. Diagnosis: Blown Engine! Sounds incredible to me, but there are people out there like this.

So far as Octane Boosters, the figures I quoted are from an independent test in which over three identical tests - the same operator, on the same CFR Engine got results within 0.02 Octane. 3 identical tests by different Operators, on different CFR Engines confirmed these results within 0.07 Octane.

You can find many conflicting tests, and those which are Dyno-based are within the degree of accuracy of the improvements, so offer little definitive proof. As you know, Internal Combustion is a very controlled and predicatable process. The Chemistry doesn't lie - these Additives MUST raise the Detonation Resistance of Gasoline, unless one is operating in some Parallel Universe where the Laws of Physics do not apply. And, the difference of even a few 10ths of an Octane can prevent Knock. And, don't forget, the Oil Companies use these very same additives to do exactly the same thing - raise the Gasoline's Octane Rating.

But I agree with you that in 6oz. or 12oz. quantities (like the packages sold in Auto Parts Stores), the results achieved are on the order of tenths of an Octane Point. You need at least a 10% mixture (which on a Boxster's Full Tank amounts to some 1.7 gal. of the stuff). We are talking about an Emergency situation, similar to your advice to driving "like a Grandma...".

I do not advocate it's use in day-to-day Driving on so many levels. Potential Damage to Valves, Exhaust and Emissions Equipment. And the fact that it costs about a third again the cost of a Fill-up. But, in this context, I would recommend having a bottle or two along with you on a trip, just in case...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Mmm, yeah I see your point, I agree with you on all of that. None of this is recommended!

[Perfectlap]

At these prices buying anything but premium seems like your overpaying.

Incidentally there are some differences other than marketing between different brands. Some use only imported middle east Crude. My understanding is that Texaco, Sunoco and Chevron don't use mid east crude and have drilling in South America and other parts. Something to consder while we are at war.

btw, this gas bull**************** has me investing heavily into energy. Valeo Energy (VLO), Sunoco, XTO, NOV, EOG ALL up up 100% in 12 months. I don't know who are going to make more dough in 2006, the energy guys or the financial services/credit card guys who just increased mininums payments on the staggering credit card debt of America.

[denverpete]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

At these prices buying anything but premium seems like your overpaying.

Incidentally there are some differences other than marketing between different brands. Some use only imported middle east Crude. My understanding is that Texaco, Sunoco and Chevron don't use mid east crude and have drilling in South America and other parts. Something to consder while we are at war.

btw, this gas bull**************** has me investing heavily into energy. Valeo Energy (VLO), Sunoco, XTO, NOV, EOG ALL up up 100% in 12 months. I don't know who are going to make more dough in 2006, the energy guys or the financial services/credit card guys who just increased mininums payments on the staggering credit card debt of America.

Again, there are absolutely no differences in the base fuel (pre-additive) between brands at the pump. Some brands might have different purchasing guidelines for crude - but that doesn't affect what you buy at the pump. Bulk Terminals don't store fuel by "brand" just by octane. Your Chevron gas comes from the exact same storage tank that supplies Wal-Mart, Costco, Texaco, and every other fueling station in your region. The gas in the storage tanks might come from a Chevron, Texaco, or Sunoco refinery (or even all three). But, you would have no way of knowing where it came from.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by denverpete

Again, there are absolutely no differences in the base fuel (pre-additive) between brands at the pump. Some brands might have different purchasing guidelines for crude - but that doesn't affect what you buy at the pump. Bulk Terminals don't store fuel by "brand" just by octane. Your Chevron gas comes from the exact same storage tank that supplies Wal-Mart, Costco, Texaco, and every other fueling station in your region. The gas in the storage tanks might come from a Chevron, Texaco, or Sunoco refinery (or even all three). But, you would have no way of knowing where it came from.

HI,

Agreed 100%. To add. at the Refinery, they don't maintain or process the Crude separately either - it is all mixed together before refining.

This is because the different sourced Crudes all have slightly different content with respect to Sulphur, Water, and some other elements.

Refining the Crude in Bulk allows for greater quality control and a much more homogenous end product, not to mention the cost savings over processing the different Crudes separately...

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

Also, you have to understand the Gasoline Infrastructure. If you live in the middle states, your Gas is probably refined in Texas and sent to your area via pipeline.

Your Oil Company may add 1 million Gallons to the Refinery (which then taskes about 10 days to get into the pipeline). The local Distrubutor may pull 1 million gallons from the pipeline today for sale, even though the Crude they sent to the Refinery isn't refined yet. So, they are pulling someone else's Gas from the pipeline, and so on.

The Oil Companies spend massive amounts of money on Marketing their products so you believe they're better than everyone else's. From some of the comments received in this thread, it appears to be fairly effective.

Fact is, it's much more important to buy Gas based on the local Retailers. Buy from reputable retailers. Last fall when Gas prices spiked, I saw one small independant retailer adding water to their underground tank with a Garden Hose! Adding 500 gal. to a 25,000 gal. tank would probably have little effect on the Car (most Cars ECU will compensate) but, at $3/gal., that's a hefty extra profit for the retailer. Also, dirt and moisture accumulate in underground tanks. You should try to buy your Gas from the Busiest station in your area, because their Tanks are constantly being Flushed and filled with fresh Gas and so will accumulate much less contaminates and moisture.

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by denverpete

Again, there are absolutely no differences in the base fuel (pre-additive) between brands at the pump. Some brands might have different purchasing guidelines for crude - but that doesn't affect what you buy at the pump. .

I'm fairly certain I saw this on CNBC and the claim was that there are a few brands that do not import ANY of their crude from the middle east.
While I agree there is chemically perhaps no difference in unrefined crude, economically its a big a difference one should consider before buying.

"America is addicted to oil from unstable parts of the world" Dubya

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I'm fairly certain I saw this on CNBC and the claim was that there are a few brands that do not import ANY of their crude from the middle east.
While I agree there is chemically perhaps no difference in unrefined crude, economically its a big a difference one should consider before buying.

"America is addicted to oil from unstable parts of the world" Dubya

Hi,

In principal I agree with you. But, practically speaking, if we restricted our purchases to non-Arabian Crude Oil, prices would rise.

But first, realize that Oil imports are down by in excess of 15% over historical high levels (as a comparison of Oil $ as a % of GNP) in the US, due to some environmental concern, but mostly more efficient vehicles.

And it's a common misconception that all the Arabs are unfriendly to the US. Our #1 importer is Saudi Arabia (an ally - small case), followed, in order, by Mexico, Kuwait, Venezuela and then the United Arab Emerates (UAE). These are all our friends and reducing these imports, and the subsequent revenues generated for these countries, could have an unstabling effect for them politically.

Most of the Oil from the Bad Guys in the Middle East, is sold to, and consumed by, Asia, principally Korea, Malaysia, but especially China (PRC).

So, if you want to be patriotic, and at the same time conserve Oil, stop buying Goods made in China. That has a double effect of reducing Oil consumption worldwide and protecting the US economy as our Trade deficit with the PRC is the Largest and getting larger. We want what they make, but they don't buy what we make creating this deficit...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[denverpete]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I'm fairly certain I saw this on CNBC and the claim was that there are a few brands that do not import ANY of their crude from the middle east.
While I agree there is chemically perhaps no difference in unrefined crude, economically its a big a difference one should consider before buying.

"America is addicted to oil from unstable parts of the world" Dubya

I kind of doubt that a company would choose not to purchase a commodity for the best price - but maybe so. The middle east actually accounts for about 17% of our imports or about equal to the percentage we import from Canada.

My actual point is not about whether the gas is chemically similar. My point is it's the SAME GAS. When you buy Chevron gas you might actually be getting oil imported by Conoco and refined by Citgo. It's then pumped through pipelines to bulk storage terminals which serve all gas vendors.

As such, it's literally impossible to buy only non-middle east gas since there is no way to know where it came from. However, if you feel strongly about the subject, and you apparently do, I suppose you could still only buy gas from Gas Stations whose parent company doesn't at least import from the middle east. Your gas might still have come from there - but at least the company you are patronizing doesn't buy there.

By the way, if we're avoiding oil from "unstable parts of the world", then we're going to have to stop importing from Columbia (1.5%), Ecuador (1%), Venezuala (11%), Algeria (3%), Nigeria (7%), Gabon (1%), and Angola (3%). Thus leaving only Canada (17%), Norway (2.2%) , U.K. (3.6%), maybe Russia (2%), and maybe Mexico (13%). Bottom line - we've got a lot of work to do!

[bhduxbury]

open up alaska!

//ducks