IMS Solution installed
 

After much procrastination, I finally have the IMS Solution in my 2004 986 Tip. Cost almost exactly $4k (US). I do feel relieved that it is finally done, although the cost is certainly a pain. I have the old bearing assembly, and pics are attached for interest. The bearing feels smooth but has a minute amount of play, I don't know how significant. The bearing seals are intact and look good, but a very small amount of oil has leaked out over the week since it was taken out. You may be able to see the smear of oil on the bearing seal in one of the photos. I guess this is significant. There is a bit of oily but dry crud on the outer surface of the bearing carrier, but I suppose this is normal. Thanks to all who offered opinions in my recent post when trying to decide about this. Cheers and Season's Greetings to all.http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1385552784.jpg
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Great! Which shop carried this installation out for you in Australia?

Do bearings rotate the opposite direction in Australia?

Yes, everything south of the equator rotates the other way.

Jake, did your Excellence article on the IMS Solution come out yet?

I noticed the December issue is out but couldn't find the article.

Only when you hit reverse gear....You guys are such clowns, didn't they teach you anything in school :p

Must be a relief to finally have this done.

Bust open that seal and let's see what the bearings themselves look like!

Jake, the work was done by Weltmeister Porsche here in Melbourne, the largest independent Porsche service centre in this country (so they say). My car goes to them for routine service, and the previous owner took it to them as well. They tell me that they have done quite a few IMS Solution installations now, and in cars with the single-row bearing, they will install the Solution kit only.

And yes RawleyD, feeling rather relieved and happier to drive it. It even runs more smoothly (OK, I am dreaming?). Have not had time to open the bearing seals, but will do soon.

And to others with theories about the effects of gravity on this end of the planet, I recommend you come here for a holiday and find out for yourself. We have some great driving, among other attractions!

Im not a bearing expert but those pics look like its fine....

I hear that all the time from those we have installed the technology for here.

The one time that I brought this point up on another forum I was chastised by the vendor haters. They said that it was absolutely impossible for this retrofit to allow the engine to run smoother than it previously did.

People.....

Took the outer seal off just now, Everything looks OK, and the bearing spins more freely with the seal off. But there is no lubricant other than a film of light oil that I can see, so I suppose the original lubricant is gone. It seems that the bearing was not in imminent danger of failing, but I wonder what the long term would have brought. I had an engine blow up in a car years ago, and finding a good used replacement engine seemed fraught with risks, so I would not enjoy doing it again, for the Boxster. I expected that the bearing would be OK. I'm still happy I did this.

You did the right thing, you'll sleep better with that single row piece of crapp out of there, and yes mine ran smoother with the new solution in, or it could have just been my relief that I installed it perfectly and my pride made me more happy :)

+1, and as for the running more smoothly, why not? The IMSB has clearance (rattle) which by definition plays into the valve timing in some manner. If the solution reduces a minute variation in valve timing by tightening up the correlation between the crankshaft and valve timing it stands to reason the engine would run more smoothly. My story and I'm sticking with it. ;)

Absolutely.. But the "vendor haters" always have to ******************** about something.

I'm considering a Boxster or 911 sometime in the next year. I'm looking at the Solution and Retrofit as preventative maintenance. I've been reading what Jake Raby and LN have been doing. Looks like a very thorough and well engineered set of solutions. I even spoke with the local independent shop that is authorized to install the Solution/Retrofit.

So, as someone considering buying in to the Porsche family I have some IMS economic observations or maybe questions.

From looking through various forums the installed cost for the IMS Retrofit is about $2,000 and the Solution is about $4,000, do I have that more or less right? Other work would probably be completed at the same time, but let's set that aside for a bit.

The recommended Retrofit life time is 50,000 miles, and the life of the solution is engine life time, right?

So, at double the cost the Solution pays for itself after 100,000 miles? I've seen reports of +200,000 mile and up Boxsters and 911's. So if you keep a Porsche for longer than 100,00 miles from date of Solution install it may be worth the extra cost.

Assume that you still have to replace the clutch every 50,000 miles and the effort to get to the clutch is the same as the IMS. Therefore in reality it takes a very, very long time for the Solution to pay for itself. Am I right or wrong?

Does it come with a special tool to measure the piece of mind?

Can the relief be put into words? Can you describe it?

The people who install the IMS Solution are generally not considering ever selling the car. To the, it pays for it's self right away.

You can't look at the different offerings from a price point of view, if you are doing that you generally won't keep the car forever and therefore should probably just use the cheaper product and let the car go after a while.

Cost is never a consideration for those who call us looking for the IMS Solution to be installed here. I think I have only had two people ever ask me about the differences in cost. Since the IMS Solution was released we haven't applied a single row classic retrofit, and only one person has asked for one. I set him up with the Single Row Pro, because its a mid price point offering.

Most people are going to the Solution, because its a complete design change that omits the ball bearing completely. People that understand how this works always say "it just makes sense".

It's about 3 months now since I had the Solution installed. I am happier with the car and drive it more often now, so clearly I have gained a benefit of sorts that justifies the cost, to me. And I have more or less forgotten about the financial cost. The impression that the engine is quieter and smoother, especially when idling, is still with me. The idle sound reminds me of a 993 that I test drove years ago, and I loved the sound of that engine. And I will probably keep the Boxster longer. So I am a happy customer.

I don't know many people that don't ask what the price of something is before they buy it, maybe I'm out of my league here.

Really, single row IMS buyers are buying only the Solution and dual row IMS buyers are some mix between Retrofit and Solution? I guess the data says that dual row bearings weren’t that bad (weren’t as bad as single row) in the first place.

I was OK looking at used Porsches for my next car with the expectation of spending about $4k to $5k on preventative maintenance, IMS, brakes, water pump, and so on. But, if the IMS is fix $4k alone I’m probably out of the used Porsche market. I’m not a teen ager, I have pretty good income, I can buy a pretty good toy, there has to be a better option. Heck, I’ve been driving minivans and SUVs for 25 years, a Nissan Sentra is going to feel like a sports car.

I do understand the peace of mind value. One day you’ve got a fantastic powerful sports car the next day you’re in the pinewood derby. Engine rebuild/replace costs run from what $8K to $20K installed (not sure if $8k is too low)? So, an IMS Solution is 20% to 50% the cost of a rebuild?

To me the Solution makes the most sense on an engine rebuild. How long should a well maintained engine last? I know there's an example on YouTube of a million mile Porsche but that owner went through three engines. So let’s say a well maintained Porsche engine will last 350,000 miles or six clutch-IMS Retrofit changes. If you said the IMS Retrofit bearing increases the clutch replacement cost by $600 then after six clutch-IMS Retrofit changes the total IMS cost is $3,600, the Solution doesn’t not pay for itself by the 350,000 mile engine failure.

I’m sorry, I probably sound whiney. I think the Solution and Retrofit IMS fixes are clever. I can’t imagine how much collectively Porsche owners have lost on resale value from the D-chunk and IMS design short comings. It’s not hard to imagine that these issues cost Porsche in reputation and new sales. Porsche owners are losing resale value, lower resale value means that prospective buyers have less cash to put toward their next purchase.

Anyone want to try to talk me back in to the used Porsche market?

The Solution makes the most sense for someone that plans on keeping the car long term, like Jake mentioned. If you are going to keep the car for an intermediate time and you need a clutch, get the retrofit. For someone who changes cars on a regular basis, get one, drive it like you stole it, have fun, and move on to the next desire. Regardless, the Boxster is an incredible value with or without the additional cost of the IMS Solution or retrofit.:cheers:

Not me - you want a Porsche, you gotta pay the freight. They are expensive as h3ll and I've only driven mine 40 miles. Best drive I've ever had. If it blows up tomorrow I'll pop in a new engine - no questions asked.

Interesting that you've also noted the smoother running and you continue to. We hear that over and over again post IMS Solution install and there's a reason for it. Every time that we mention this people say its BS because there's no way that the bearing design change could lead to this. Those who have experienced it aren't making it up.

Some people like to solve a problem, others like to apply a less permanent fix, because of that we offer 3 products with 3 different service lives and price points. Others only offer one, and most of them didn't even design it themselves.

That feeling of a smoother running motor makes sense to me. That whole area spinning all that chain should tighten up, the IMS would be more stable, especially if the car had lots of miles.
Why couldn't those Germans have thought of that?
Or was that the influence of Toyota engineers?

German engineering VS: American Ingenuity

Ain't America Great

They did... Back in the mid 1950's and kept the design through all aircooled flat 6 engines with no deviation. The design continued in the Mezger flat 6 based GT3 and Turbo engines until 2013.

The very first night I took apart an M96 engine, knowing nothing about it, I invented the IMS Solution. Why? because it made sense.

Can't be done, certainly not in any logical, justifiable or quantitative way.
As Jake points out, Porsche swayed from previous, proven engineering. This opened Pandora's Box. With hard work and business risks, corrective solutions were developed and options now exist. They aren't cheap when one looks at it from the perspective of a $10-$15k, decade+ old car.
Keep in mind that there are a lot of these cars out there, running fine into high miles. So there is still a lot of excellent engineer in these cars.

But sit in one, turn the key, row through the gears, kick it up near the red line
I did. I can't wait to go for a drive again

There you go - No need to talk anymore - Talk is cheap anyhow

Glad to hear that everyone is satisified with the Solution. I have a Solution install scheduled next month.

The only two (probably dumb) questions that I have over the new "Double Row Pro" are:

1. "IF," and I know that it is a big IF, the oil line from the filter to the plain bearing should be severed, what would be the result? Would you know soon enough from the oil pressure gauge in the car (would it drop instantly to 0?) to swiftly turn off the engine or would that not work since you are taking a small amount of oil from the filter adapter and the pressure would not be affected?

Is there any application where the Double Row Pro could be a better choice?

2. Once you go IMS Solution, can you ever go back to a bearing? (not sure you would ever want to do that)...

Trust that ANY event that would lead to this would create serious damage otherwise and you'd probably not have an engine left. The oil line is tucked tightly against the bottom of the engine and is far from the lowest point. That said, I am building a C4 996 into a Rally car just to prove that this line and position will take the most harsh off road environments possible, with no additional protection over whats offered in stock form.

What would be the result if the line did fail? Well, you'd take advantage of the fail safe designed into the arrangement. We have forced these failures and know what happens, and the result has not been total engine loss to date when we did these tests.

It does not drop to zero, as the volume loss from the hose is not significant enough to create a total loss of OP. You will lose 1-1.5 bar of pressure and unless the engine is ran out of oil the rest of the engine does not suffer from this event. I know because I have done this purposely.

If you are quick on the draw you can shut it down and be fine. For those worried about this we have designed an auxiliary oil pressure indicator light that installs with a pressure switch in the line and can be used to indicate a loss of OP to the IMS Solution. We have never sold a kit, because its never been an issue with a buyer. I used this arrangement during testing to feed OP values to my data logger as live pressure that the IMS Solution was seeing.

I developed both of them, and the only benefit that the Single Row Pro has is reduced cost. This is the only reason we released the Single Row Pro, to be a stronger arrangement than the Classic Single Row, but have a mid price point.

Absolutely you can! In fact we did this during testing when evaluating an OEM single row, Classic Single Row, Single Row Pro and IMS Solution against each other from a MPG, BSFC and HP/ TQ point of view, all back to back and all in the same engine. We installed three of the technologies in a single day, back to back to back and the results were so unbelievable that I'd dare not post them, else people would think that we were making it all up.

My Faultless Tool installs and extracts all IMSB technologies that we have developed to date. No worries.

Thanks for the reply Jake! I figured you had all of the bases covered and tested.