IMS Failure - should I replace the engine?
 

I have a 2003 Boxster with 65K miles and the IMS bearing just failed, which means I need a new engine. This is the second engine for the car as the first one was replaced when the car had 13K miles. That was replaced due to a failed lifter. I am thinking I will sell the car to a salvage yard as the cheapest quote I have received for the installation of a used engine is $8,900. One salvage yard has offered $4K for the car as is. Has anyone else gone through this and any suggestions on the best way to move forward?

:s too bad !
Maybe you should sell the parts by yourself on ebay or forums... You will have probably more than 4k$ !
This kind of stories turn me off to start the engine...

Car is worth $14K-$16K.

Have you considered swapping the engine yourself? Can save $2-3K.

Find a cheap replacement engine yourself and then have a shop perform the swap. This could also save $2-3K.

If you're done, $4K is a decent price for a rolling chassis from a dismantler. You could make more parting the car out yourself but its a big PITA.

****************K!!!! Can you tell us about how you maintained the car? Oil changes at every 5K Miles?

There are plenty of used engines on Ebay for the 2.5/2.7l engines. Plus there is a company in California that rebuilds them for $5,000. Just ship the engine or whole car to them.
I do believe it is worth exploring the options before selling it as a rolling chassis.

CR

5k$ to rebuild your motor in California... Seen on Ebay (motormeisterinc)

It could be an option...

Edit : Crod was faster :D

Thanks for the feedback. The car is in pristine condition and has been maintained per the owners manual. I do not have any tools or the knowlege on how to install an engine. It seems like the labor cost I've been quoted to swap them out is anywhere between $2-$3K. I will say this has been the least reliable car I've ever owned. Lots of fun to drive, but I think leasing would be the only way I would purchase another Porsche.

You've got to be kidding; do a search on Motormeister, they have one of the worst reputations in the business. Considering how many people they have totally screwed, they shouldn't be allowed to touch a lawnmower.....

The car is overall very reliable and percentage wise only a small number was affected with IMS issues. The reality is Porsche produced hundreds of thousands of these cars and almost guaranteed not 10,000 of these had IMS failures. Of course when everyone is happy, most owners do not come forward to say how great and reliable the car is. It is the owners that had the issues that will flood the internet saying how crap the car is. This is just human nature. Rant when crap happens, stay quiet when it is all good.

That said, the IMS design is indeed stupid BUT if you treat it like another part that requires preventive maintenance, chances it will fail will be very very slim. Like check/change it every 40,000 miles with a new clutch. Or 30,000 if you want to be even safer. Sure it adds up on the up keeping costs with the car. But at the end of the day it is a Porsche. If we want to drive super reliable, almost maintenance free and cheap-to-fix-when-****************e-happens we would all be driving Mazda Miatas or Honda Civics and not Porsches.

Key of owning a Porsche is to set money aside every month AND take a proactive approach maintenance wise. Never wait for something to break to go and fix. Fix it BEFORE it happens. How? Simple. We all know many parts have an expected lifespan. For example the water pump. Why wait until it dies? Change it every 50-60k for piece of mind. Same can be said regarding the IMS, Clutch, chains, etc.

If you follow that you will certainly have a car that will never fail on you.

CR

Agreed. The one I knew about in CA was not them.

CR

my condolences. How long did you own the car?

I ran a poll recently to see what most would do if they were in your shoes. I was surprised to see that ~70% said they would rebuild or swap in a used motor. Out of curiosity I called one fot the V8 shops that do Porsches and found out that the cost will run about $14K before you source the donor engine. And those are tough to find for less than $4K with harness. If you want GT3 level power from the Chevy engine you'll be into for $24K.

It's a tough call. But I personally, at last back of the envelope calculation, I have well over $65K into this car. Another $9K would be ridiculous but the way I look at it, if lightning doesn't strike twice I can run this car for nearly a quarter century or more. It's already half way there. And although the engine build is a mixed blessing, the car still gets tons of compliments and driving it provides pleasure that is hard to replace without spending a lot more money.

The real thing is that when it comes to all pre-9A1 porsches, whatever you pay for it, you'll end up dumping twice that amount into it in the long-term. So even if I'd a gone for a seoncd-hand $70K 996 GT3 or Turbo, God only knows how much after-tax income I'd be out in the long run, well over six figures. OTOH having $700-$1,200 montly payments for 2009+ Porsche that is only marginally more exciting to drive than my 3.2 doesn't thrill me in the least either. I don't know which I dislike more: plunking down a giant pile o' cash for rapidly depreciating asset, or financing a depreciating asset... I feel like buying a used Boxster with the depreciation baked in at least half way is more tolerable under $50K than over that amount. The previous owner of my car lost close to $30K and barely put 9K miles into the car. I would sooner jump off the pier. AAPL is down -17% YTD... too many money-chasing opps out there.

Plan B, and this may sound shocking, is simply to buy another Boxster that's had the IMSB sorted. They say these cars are dispoable, and with the market inundated in Caymans, Carreras, Cayennes and Boxsters, the prices reflect this over-supply.

*** WARNING ***

Read up on Motor Meister. Let's just say that they have a past that deserves careful consideration.

You will get exactly what you pay for in regard to engines for these cars.

That said, we buy broken Boxsters and I have a need for one now as another testing platform.

In what year and month was the replacement motor installed? I assume it was a factory reman?

I don't believe Porsche's numbers for a New York minute! And I'm sick of hearing about yet an other blown engine. It's really sad that the early Porsche is forever connected to the pre 9A1 watercooled Porsche. I will never own another M96 car.:mad:

What would you be willing to pay for my car? I could email/text pics and send you the VIN.

Engine was replace in 9/04.

Before you sell the car to a recycler, consider that you have some desirable parts. For example, the OEM top and frame with a glass window and de-ambered headlights and tail lights. You might be able to find an enthusiast in your area with a 2002 or earlier car who would be willing to swap some parts and pay you a nice chunk of cash for the privilege. The top and frame alone might net you from $1000 to $1500 depending on the condition.

I think parting the whole car out on your own would be very time consuming, but the top and light change could be done in 3 hours by someone who knows what they are doing.

Hey Jake - I will volunteer my ride. Heck, I even volunteer to be your test driver and put in lots of track time at Road Atlanta, Barber, Roebling, you name it :D

Well after experiencing an issue with my own Boxster that at the end turned out to be way way less than initially thought, I am surprised to see that most owners would simply give up on rebuilding the damn thing by themselves. This is a car, not the space shuttle. Plus there are thousands of articles all over the Internet explaining how to do it. Youtube videos. You name it.

We did it at home with not having ever worked on a Porsche engine. Heck I did not have any mechanical experience whatsoever other than knowing the basic concepts. Sure my son helped a lot but I am certain I would be able to tackle this on my own if needed.

Does it take time? Yep. Costs a ton of money in parts? Not necessarily as no one can say for sure how much it will cost until you open the engine. In my case the initial $15k estimated by the mechanic dropped to $1.5k in parts. Note that $650 is for the LN Engineering bearing and $200 and something for the OEM water pump.

Worst case for you, get an used engine that is guaranteed to be working (many sold with 90 days warranty) at around $4,000 (Ebay) and pay a mechanic to replace it (my mechanic took mine out plus the transmission in 4 hours, $360). Probably with $6,000 the car is back on the road and you will be able to sell it immediately for much more than the price you will be offered for a rolling chassis + the $6,000 spent. That is what I would do in your case if not willing to keep the car or to go down the path I took. :D

CR

One of the best and cheapest places to find a 2nd hand Porsche Boxster Engine is on eBay UK.

You can pick up a 2nd hand Boxster engine up for less $2400 US dollars.

Here is the link..

porsche boxster engine | eBay

Doesn't this car qualify for the IMS law suit filed already.. It falls within the time frame of the car listed on the class settlement suit. Worth a try.

It needs to make laps across the USA and see 100k miles in less than 6 months.

Once my M96 assembly manual is published it will be a lot easier for DIYrs to build their own engines. Till then I still hold my semi-annual engine rebuild schools here at Flat 6 as well as my WTI M96 Engine Mechanical classes that are open to DIYrs and it also covers engine assembly.

I just received this testimonial from my last WTI class:

"My son, David, and I recently attended the PORSCHE M96 Engine course put on by WORLDPAC and taught by Tony Callas and Jake Raby. What an AWESOME course, there is so much information in this course, so many tips, tricks, techniques and “Silver Bullets” related to the PORSCHE Water Cooled Flat Six engines, that even if you do not perform engine repairs on these vehicles, it is well worth the price of attendance just so that you know the ins and outs of these engines. Taking this course gives you so much insight on these engines, it is just incredible.

To get the real world, hands-on experience of these two guys is priceless. Jake gives you the details that you need to help you make the decision if you even want to get involved in any internal repair of these engines. The procedures that Jake goes over and the tools required to perform the repairs are invaluable. The tips on dealing with the vehicle owner, your client, were very useful also. The facts that not only are you dealing with a broken vehicle, but a broken client, and how to break the news to the victim are very helpful and insightful.

The personal experiences that Tony and Jake bring to the table and share with the class were phenomenal. By putting together this course, and putting together this incredible information source, Tony and Jake have provided an invaluable service to the technicians and shop owners that service these very complicated vehicles, as well as an important service to the owners of these vehicles. This allows the vehicle owners to have another source to have their vehicles repaired properly outside of the dealership network. Tony and Jake have provided, in our opinion, an invaluable service to the PORSCHE community as whole.”

Omar Martin"

That testimonial makes me want to fly to the states and attend your class just for fun. Maybe I will! Any tentative date for releasing the M96 assembly manual?

Sorry didn't know :barf:

Intermediate Shaft (IMS) Bearing Info and Fixes
 

I picked up my 986 in April of this year for a project car. I just got my class action letter on this IMS thing, my car only has 35k miles and performs flawless so this is the first I've heard of this. From researching the issue, I found this to be a good read for all of the misconceptions and misunderstandings out there about the IMS problem:

How common are these failures?
It's generally believed to be a small percentage, but this figure is meaningless as it is likely to depend on mileage etc. There are still plenty of low mileage Boxsters out there; these cars could suffer an IMS failure later down the road when they get into the 100k-200k range.

READ FULL:
The Porsche Boxster 986 Enthusiast Guide: Intermediate Shaft (IMS) Bearing Info and Fixes

73K miles 2006 Cayman S. Travelling in a straight line on a dry road at around 65mph, the vehicle's engine expired in a huge plume of coolant/oil. Flatbedded to a Porsche dealership, a technician using a boroscope found (according to the dealership) "scoring to #5 cylinder and evidence that a valve had hit the top of the piston. There was also a huge amount of metal debris in the oil filter." This was a result of something failing in the engine, rather than the cause of the failure. The Porsche dealership did not care to determine the cause of the failure. I suspect intermediate main shaft (IMS) failure. One year beyond certified pre-owned (CPO) warranty and $20K for a new engine.

"CPO" most likely means you bought the used Cayman from a Porsche dealer. Go through the same dealership and see if PCNA will help out with the $20K engine replacement cost on "goodwill". 50-50 split isn't all that unusual. Be nice and appeal to their sense of customer loyalty; threats won't get you anywhere in this situation. Good luck!

Sent a PS

PK