Just another take on the 981, drove an S today
 

Good thing the local Porsche dealer is a very good friend of mine.

I stopped by over lunch and took a 981 S for a short drive. PDK and a few other options = $ 80,000 plus.......

I wanted to compare a few things to my current ride.

A/C, after my repair/refill no difference, nice!

Handling, specifically quick left/right transitions. My car feels really "light", seems the 981 reacts a bit slower, still very agile, though. Another observation is that after I turn the wheel the 981 takes just a moment to settle into the new direction, don't know how to better describe this.... Is this the electric power steering effect?

Power, obviously the 981 S is faster. But not as much faster as I thought. Maybe difficult to judge because the 981 is so much smoother. My car feels so raw compared to the luxobarge the 981 has become.

Sound, when cruising the 981 is very quiet. Stepping on it makes it really loud, louder than mine even with the mods I have...

Surprisingly my car is a bit more comfy in terms of spring/damping. The 981 had the PCM and was sometimes a bit to "rice". Had 20" wheels as well, mine 17".

Quality of the new car is fantastic, no question about it. Big huge step.

Well, just a few observations.


All in all I'd love to have a new S but with minimal options, sport seats with heat and air and very few other things. It has to wait, though, 70,000 for a new one is serious bucks in my book and my current car is so much fun! Reality check worked for me.

Later,
Andy

Andy, having driven a 981 Base with PDK and 19 inch wheels I agree with a number of your comments:

1. the quality of the interior materials is vastly superior.
2. I'm not sure if the turn-in seemed more sluggish, but the car definitely felt heavier and less 'tossable'. Of course, it IS quite a bit heavier than my car (2000 Base at 2780 lbs with 17 inch rims).
3. Braking felt comparable - great feel, easy to modulate and no perceptible fade.
4. The steering did feel a little numb by comparison - but then, I like the additional feedback (and even kickback over some bumps) just to let me know what is happening on the road.
5. The PDK is definitely state of the art. Unfortunately, it is an art that does not appeal to me. Yes, it shifts faster than I do. Yes, it seems to intuit the gear I want. Yes, it matches revs on downshifts better than I could ever do (and I take pride in double-clutching on every downshift). But to me, hearing the electronically controlled throttle blips began to make it seem like I was driving a video game!

In spite of all that, I still like the new 981. It is lighter than the 987, faster, more fuel efficient, better finished and, if not over-optioned, pretty reasonably priced. It also has a nicely integrated appearance that seems, if more generic than the 986, also more like an 'exotic' car. And who knows, if I had been driving an 'S' with a manual transmission, I might have even found the driving experience to be superior, in spite of the steering.

Brad

Unfortunately,i have not had the pleasure of driving a 981,however i own a 987-1 S and a friend has a 03 986 S which i have driven many times,i definately like the look inside and out better on mine BUT i feel the 986 was nicer to drive,more raw,just as quick if not more torque,maybe it just felt more ,not sure but still a very nice car.Honestly i am not in love with the new 981,s looks regardless of the performance over the others.Looks more like a version of a corvette ot a Ferrari,but i feel its lost some of the Porsche look.If i ever sell my 987 ill probably look at a 911,they still got the look that takes me back.

I'm not sure how a Bluetooth navigation screen can make a car ride different , but Pasm on normal mode is generally softer than the conventional passive suspension .
Did you have sport , or sport+ engaged ?
You can still do this and turn off the sport suspension with a quick button press .

Although I have a profound respect and appreciation for the new 981, the price places it in a category whereby my interests are assuaged by other vehicles. Have I mentioned 360 Modena before ? :cool:

Last time I looked , late last year , you could only get a 13-15 year Old 360 for 981 money .

That will be enough to put most people off .
Besides them being too different to compare ...

Late model (2002 - 2004) , low mileage, excellent condition 360's can be had in the 80k+ range. That doesn't put me off. That being said, they're both two seater, mid-engine platform vehicles. How different is that ?

One is an f-car , and one is a p-car .

One is a highly strung thoroughbred , one is a more than competent-more than sports car .
One costs twice as much new , and one costs twice as much to maintain .

On top of model placement being in different "leagues" ( i dont consider the 981 leagues below) .. Driving experience , running costs , and maintenance costs are all vastly different .

I was looking at 03-04 cars last November and they where all around 100k .

Take a good look at the f1 clutch life expectancy compared to the pdk version before you buy .
I would be needing a new Ferrari clutch by now , just with the miles I've put on my 911 pdk since October .......

Beautiful and awesome car , but do your homework before you buy .

V8 Ferraris are an awesome weekend toy , but be aware they cost you money while they're stored during the week :D

I'm very well versed when it comes to 360's. I was merely speaking in generalities . And, I'm very much aware of the cost of maintenance and ownership between the two. At least neither vehicle requires an IMSB retrofit ! Which is about the cost of a belt service on a 360 ! :) You should revisit the 360 market. Prices have come down considerably

IMHO, this proposition is ridiculous.

You want to drive a 360? Rent one. $$$$$

Wanna drive a 981? Buy one. $$$$$$$

To me, this is a no brainer.

Better yet...................drive what you got.

TO

The key word here is......................drive.

TO

Don't make me drive down to Dallas to prove my point !:)

2003 Ferrari 360 Modena F1 for Sale - 1760949 - duPontREGISTRY.com

On the other hand, this jitney could easily win me over !

Too old now ......

The 360 , not me :)

Tbh , they where to old late last year .
I might visit the 430 market in a couple of months though ;)

But to be honest the 991 and 981 have my attention at the moment .

That advert proves my point exactly :D

On top of the depreciation in the last year , All that work done and it hasn't hit 20k yet .......

An awesome toy , but a very expensive toy .

I could buy a 986 and use it for a year for what it cost to get that to a "selling state" :)

In all honesty, I tend to agree with you on the issue of age regarding the 360. In addition to the already expensive costs associated with upkeep and maintenance, most 360's have reached the age where one thing after the next will either need fixing or replacing. That would be enough to make anyone crazy !

p.s. Drove one of these for a bit last summer. Quite a machine indeed !

Strong or Garff?

Nice machine :)

This is my daily , but the 986 has been used for most of this week ... Simply too much fun with the wind in my (non-existent) hair !!! :D

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps9576aac7.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps66cce89a.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps0c7f1b70.jpg

Strong.

BTW, in sports mode that PDK is HAMMERING the gears in!

And even in "normal" mode the car is not exactly soft......

Coming back to the left/right transitions (quick lane change or auto cross type driving), to me it is like this:- turn wheel, front tires react, car starts to turn, so far all ok but here is the thing, the rear end seems to "follow" until the car is settling down. There is this split second when the car is like floating.
Strangely I drove a WRX years ago and it had exactly the same thing going, that's why I never bought that piece. At that time I thought tires, but with 20" on the 981 I believe it is more a chassis issue.

Love the car but I will keep mine for some time! Raw and direct, just like a Porsche should be!


And Dangerman.... Buy a 360 please and let us know how we can set up a help fund to finance repairs and service, no joke!!! Trust me, these things are a nightmare.

They sure are a beautiful car though arent they andy !!!
They had the perfect S interior at my local dealers a month ago ..
Full leather and sports seats in a white and light grey combo that matched the carpets etc.

I could see it ruined in weeks with me , but it sure looked pretty in them light colours :D

The one I drove was black over orange full leather incl dash and doors, very nice! A combo of today's interior with our "old" rawness would be nice, plus a bit more power.

:) LOL :)

You DO realize that's it a 3400 mile round trip from MA to TX, right? That's like what..............three years mileage?

But hey, if you ever do come down, we could always caravan over to Motorsports Ranch or Eagle Canyon for a track day and rub door handles! :cool:

TO

Love the wheels !

Thanks
I hope you'll like the boxster once that's finished (2weeks or so)

What do you have going on ?

I just bid on this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012-Ferrari-458-Italia-Spider-Carbon-Fiber-Daytona-Seats-Alcantara-Options-/171069025839?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item27d4822e2f

Darn it! Outbid!

Nothing too serious , just a quick tidy-up and makeover :)
The wheels will look very cool IMHO :cool:
All will be revealed in a week or two ......

A 360 is in my 3 year plan. They were the most reliable Ferrari built and despite conventional thoughts on exuberant maintenance costs, plenty of owners insist this just isn’t true. A 360 needs fluids and tires. The belt service every 5 years will set you back, however this is still cheaper than an IMS failure. The 360 is near the bottom of depreciation. In fact the CS version is appreciating in value. A new 981 is going to take a huge dive of 25% value over the first three years. This puts the 360 at a much lower cost of ownership in all actuality. What put me over the top on this desire was reading the accounts of owners of both. “The Porsche twin turbo is much faster in a straight line, not much will beat it. But the 360 screams out of a corner, there is no turbo lag. The Porsche is more utilitarian. It does its job, and very well. But every time I get in the 360 I think to myself holy ****************, I am in a Ferrari! Nothing compares to the sound of the Ferrari.”

Everything you said about the Ferrari may be true but the regular wear parts will make the Porsche seem like a bargain. There will be far less indy mechanics that will even touch it and most importantly, IDK if it has any appreciable trunk room for a trip.

I just put a deposit down on a new 981 Cayman S. I sold my 986S the other day. It was a hard decision tho. Like others I was looking at 360's, Gallardos and at that point slightly more for used early model v8 R8s. The wife put the stop on the whole audi thing and I don't think I could convince her on maintainence costs on the Ferrari or Lambo.

Yes the 360 is cheaper but it is still Ferrari and still has $$ for maint. If you can save that money up and not lose it in depreciation then more power to you. A car that old will still have wear and tear beyond just tires and fluids and if you do professional service will still be paying ferrari rates for work done or close to it at an Indi shop. Lambos need their clutch every 15-20k miles I heard and that is not cheap either. My main factor was the wife who after my falling in love with the R8 decided to tone back my spending allowance. Heheh that car would have been cheaper to maintain than the Italians and handled great.

I was also looking at lotus (too raw) and 911 S or GTS. I drove a GTS but couldn't get over the feeling of the weight in the rear and it feeling as if it would oversteer at every second compared to the boxster. In the end I decided new with warranty and mid engine spec'd exactly how I wanted would win over a used 911. This way I get a perfectly clean car, no history, full warranty, how I want it and all the new tech goodies. Flip side...steering is worse...but I'll live with It.

My two cents... If you tell me a 360 is really that cheap to own I'd love to see where...I probably lost my deposit now if I change but I'm gonna feel bad if I didn't do my homework right...
Heh

There's a member on the forum, PhilnotHill, who owns a later model 360 Spider. I had occasion to pick his brain on the issue of maintenance. Age and wear and tear parts aside, the maintenance didn't sound like it was all that crazy. Basically, annual oil and fluid changes, with a belt service every 3 years or 15k miles. According to him, a belt service can be done for around 2k. I also spend quite a bit of time lurking around the FChat site, and I've picked up a fair amount of knowledge there with respect to ownership costs as well. However, as it's been discussed during this thread, the average 360 is getting along in years, and my concern at this point is the cost of maintenance and replacement parts above beyond routine upkeep. In addition, there's always the concern that something major could go wrong, in which case a person would have to take out a second mortgage to pay for it.

Gallardo? Are you serious?

http://www.topcars2008.com/images/la...do_picture.jpg

No Cayman would interest me over that car. Of course the Gallardo would never be a daily driver like the Cayman would be.

Actually, if you do some research and spend sometime on the Lamborghini forums, you'd discover that the maintenance and reliability of a Lambo in many cases is in a completely different category than a Ferrari. Many describe it as having the reliability of an Audi. No surprise there since Audi owns Lamborghini. However, according to a friend who's the technical director for Lamborghini North America, it's best to get a Gallardo that's an '06 and up.

Yeah, I don't visit Lamborghini forums. The Gallardo and Cayman are not in the same class in my book.

Probably a good thing his wife said no on the Gallardo, he'd be divorced soon after the purchase.

Heh I agree with you all. I would clearly take a lambo or Ferrari if I could. It's just every time I have looked into it major services are like $8000 or more. I just can't justify that in the long term. And like to put a decent mileage on my cars and actually drive them, which would mean more frequent service. Maybe I'm wrong but whenever I've seen actual true scans of people's services on these cars it makes Porsche service seem cheap.