You're overlooking several things.

1. The Boxster is mass market. Most people don't know about IMS issues
2. If you claim IMS has depressed values, that means they'd be higher without IMS issues.

The problem with point two is that there's no space for this to be true. Increase the price of an early 986 and you have to do the same for a late 986, as the late car is always going to be worth more at this pre-classic stage.

But then you have to adjust early 987s up and in turn late 987s.

And that just doesn't work. If you observe used values you'll see there no huge drop off from 987.2 to 987.1. The 987.2 is worth more, but the gap is no more than you'd expect for a newer model.

If you stop and think about it, you'll realise that there's really no way an early 986 can be worth a lot more than it is. From early 986s through nearly new 981s, there are a metric tonne of Boxsters out there in numbers terms. Hundreds of thousands. A few hundred or even thousand guys talking about IMS on forums is irrelevant.

And that's why they're cheap.

Which makes me wonder if it will be rare to see one of these on the road in the future. Even now with all this over-supply of decently running Boxsters how often do you see one every time you park your car in shopping mall parking lot? Still a pretty rare sight here. Now imagine how many you'll see after 10 years of neglect.

Someone might say "Boxster? Bigh whup. You can get one $5K".

Sure you can....:rolleyes:

Now what about after you've spent all the money to get brakes, suspension, cooling and engine in order? There will never be any such thing as a $5K Porsche unless you are in that small minority of buyers that do his own work.
Suspensions/control arms are still going to run $2-4K installed. A clutch/ims/rms/flywheel job is still going to run $3K and paint work will only get more expensive over time. $5K just turned into $12K and counting..

I had the opposite feeling. I found the 993 to be very mushy. Like the car was getting suddenly softer from the 964. Not nearly as sharp.
And while the 996 felt to me like it was disconnected in comparison to the air-cooled cars that came right before, fast is fast when you're talking about the one Porsche that's actually raced. I mean with the 996 you had total amateur weekend racers coming within a couple of seconds of professional 996 Cup Car lap times. That's nuts.
The 996 was a huge step forward in racing department.

I'm sure that the Corvette, BMW Z3, and Honda S2000 owners are wondering the same thing about their cars:

10 sports cars under $10,000 - Yahoo! Autos

TO

Perfectlap, I agree that there are no cheap Porsches and that is precisely why so many that have been (and are being) purchased cheap right now will be off the road in a the next few years. That will reduce the supply of good examples of what is already, as you say, pretty rare in many areas.

Project M96, having owned both a 944 and a 986, I disagree with your suggestion that the 944 and the 986 will ultimately be of comparable value. Consider the following:

1. The 944 recieved nowhere near the emotional response that the 986 did upon its introduction. It was, in fact, nothing more than an upgraded Porsche (or VW-Porsche) 924.
2. As a result, the 944 was and is considered by many to be something other than a 'real' Porsche sports car. The 986, however, has always been considered a 'real Porsche'.
3. Although well received, the 944 did not dominate reviews/comparison tests with its contemporaries in the way that the 986 Boxster did.
4. The 944 was a one-off model that was ultimately discontinued - the 986 was the first model of a line of sports cars (the first since the 911) that Porsche is committed to continuing.
5. The 944 was similar in layout/design to other sports cars of the period such as the Nissan Z and Mazda RX7 - front engine, rear drive, long hood and rear hatch. Far from unique, it was a Johnny-come-lately in an already saturated market. The 986, however, was a breath of fresh air. A mid-priced roadster unlike any car on the market. A car that was uniquely Porsche and recognizeable as such.
6. In that connection, design elements of the 986 harkened back to the Giant-killing Porsche 550 Spyder and the much sought-after (and also ultra valuable) Porsche Speedster; the 944 displayed no such historical connection.
7. The 986 was significant in that it is generally acknowleged to be the car that saved the marque; the 944 was simply one of two front engined cars - the 944 and 928, which were brought out by Porsche in an effort to modernize thier line and eventually discarded.
8. The 944 was never available as a roadster or cabriolet - something which all previous collectible Porsche's such as the 356 and 911 were. Over time, it is invariably the convertibles that have become the most valuable of any production model.
9. The 986 is almost universally praised for its incredible exhaust note, whereas the 944 sounded like - well, half a Porsche 928. Not bad, but hardly unique or exciting.
10. The engine in the 944 was an over-large 4 cylinder which required the installation of a balance shaft that Porsche had to license from Mitsubishi. Wow, technology shared with the Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engines used in the original Chrysler Minivans! The engine in the 986 however, was a state-of-the-art 6 cylinder, 4 cam, horizontally opposed engine with variable valve-timing.

Having owned both a 944 and a 986, I can tell you that my 944 recieved less attention even when it was a current model than my 986 does now that it is two models old. Whereas many lusted after the 986 when it was introduced, few felt the same compassion about the 944. What was true when the 944 was introduced, remains true today. It has become relegated to the status of a footnote in the history of a great marque. Does anyone othe than you really believe that the 986 - the first of the incredibly popular mid-engined Boxsters, could ever suffer the same fate?

Brad

You might want to check some of your facts on 944's and the like.
 

They were available as convertibles the last 2-3 years they were in production (944S2).

They were considered at the top of their segment and the best all around (nissan z, rx-7, supra, etc.) especially the turbo, granted they were significantly more expensive than all the others.

The balance shaft idea is not a minivan only thing anymore than spark plugs are a ford thing.

The 944 series (924-968) were some of the best selling cars porsche has ever produced. The company got plenty fat off of sales of those cars until the exchange rates went sour in the late 80's.

The 924 (apart from the already established Z) created the market segment when it came out in 76/77....the Rx-7 was still a year or two away and the supra never really came into it's own until the 86 model.

Ditto +1 ! Only I'm in it for even more than you are ! :eek:

good question. I almost bought a 99 996 convertible, but went for a newer 987 instead

the payment on the 99 996 would be higher even though it was cheaper because no companies were willing to finance a car that old at the rate and terms I got because a older vehicle is more of a risk

so there you have it, i chose a 987 over a 996. Crazy or brilliant? You decide :dance: but let me remind you the 987 was being sold until 2012 so I basically have a Porsche that looks like a 2012 model :D

IMS totals the engine, so it is a $12k+ repair


996 911 for $10k? While I don't doubt that might have happened somewhere (hate to see what it looked like!), that's hardly the norm. ~$20,000 is closer to what they cost in average condition, but if you have some links for 911's selling for $10,000 I'd be happy to take a look :D

what is the advantage of modding a C4S to be RWD? I googled it and everyone basically said don't do it
C4S: RWD Conversion - Rennlist Discussion Forums

"produces 217 hp and 192 lb-ft, enough grunt for a 0 to 60 mph romp of less than 7 seconds"

Erh, isn't it closer to 6 seconds?

HowStuffWorks "2000 Porsche Boxster and Porsche Boxster S"
"Porsche pegged the 2000 base Boxster at 6.4 seconds in the benchmark 0-60 dash, a modest 0.3-sec up on the 2.5-liter original. The real-world time was probably more like 5.9,"

disappointed Yahoo added a whole second to the 0-60 time. Thanks Yahoo.

Why are you financing such old cars?

This is the way that all Porsches are. In my experience, at least.

Our first Porsche was a 1975 911 (I have no idea what the number for that is, I think it's just 911). We bought it used and had it for about 10 years. When we sold it (I think it was 1990), no one wanted it, you couldn't give those things away. A Porsche with no actual A/C, that had a tendency to overheat in traffic (air cooled was a dirty word), with dated styling. Prices were really low.

Now all I hear is how great the air cooled was, and people are paying for it like it's a feature. :confused:

I think the moral of the story is keep a car until it's about 35 years old, then the price will go up. 35 years is a loooooong time, and attrition will eat up the majority of cars of that age. Those that are left are typically well cared for and worthy of collecting.

Here is a link to the 996 that I just bought for $10K after my Boxster was totaled:

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/44227-986-wrecked-got-996-today.html

I think that you'll agree that it looks pretty nice. Savannah beige full leather interior. Porsche/BBS Sport Design 18" two piece wheels. No leaks, runs great, drives great.

Papasmurf, you are right about the convertible 944 S2's - there are so few that I had forgotten about them! As to the rest, I stick by what I had said. I owned a 1970 Datsun 240Z and a 1974 260Z prior to my 944 and even then I recognized that, apart from the rear transaxle in the Porsche, the basic form and package was no different and anything but unique or a breakthrough. The 924 was a joint project with VW and apart from great handling, it had middle-of-road performance and a rather uninspired body design. The 944 was a significant upgrade in appearance and performance and, as I said, was certainly a good car. However, it was still based upon the 924 and, as a consequence, was and is still considered by many to be less than a real Porsche.

Balance shafts are like spark plugs? I disagree. Porsche didn't have to pay licensing fees for spark plugs. When they decided to cut a V8 in half, they discovered that the inherent inbalance of a large in-line 4 cylinder engine would shake unacceptably without the addition of some counter-rotational balance. In-line 4 cylinders just don't work well at that size and that is why we see so few in-line 4 cylinder of that size ( 2.5 litres ) or larger today. Simply put, they had to pay Mitsubishi for a fix for a problem that was inherent in the design. I'm not saying that it is bad engineering, per se - just not up to the standard that one would expect from Porsche.
AIs to the value of 986 Porsches, I am also sticking to my guns. I believe that the value for clean, well-maintained, low mileage examples has probably already bottomed. I also believe, for the reasons indicated, that as the supply of good examples continues to diminish (and at an increasing rate - cost to maintain versus low value), the prices for these good examples will start to rise. In around 2021, when Porsche will likely introduce its fourth version of the Boxster, the original Boxsters will then be 25 years old. I fully expect that Porsche will recognize this and produce a 'Silver Anniversary Edition' Boxster. I also expect that some magazines will recognize this with retrospective articles on the 986 as it was not only a seminal design, but one that was responsible for the survival of this great marque. This publicity will bring about a resurgance in interest and therewith an increase in demand. Since the remaining supply of good examples cannot increase, prices will inevitably rise.

Anyway, while predicting the future value of collectible cars (or anything else) is fraught with uncertainty; and, while I did not buy my car for any reason other than my joy in owning, driving and looking at her, I nevertheless believe that there is good news in the current low prices for owners and prospective purchasers of clean, well-maintained examples of the 986. At the very least, depreciation will be very low; at best, there is reason to believe that in another 8 years (mid-term from an investment standpoint), the values will start to rise significantly. Is that a sufficient reason to hang on to yours? Probably not. But if your 986 continues to provide joy and excitement that would be hard to replicate with any other car for the money, then by hanging on to it you may just end up in one of those very rare win/win situations.

Brad

924 through 968 are misunderstood.

They are properly engineered things that make 986s feel utterly flimsy. The control weights and feel in those cars are pukka. The 986 is an over-servoed luxury barge by comparison.

They're transaxle designs, part of the reason they handle so well and typically quite a high end feature.

The only problem for me with the 924 through 968 is that they lack a rousing flat-six engine note.

Don't get me wrong, I think 986 are wonderful and on balance prefer them to 924-968s. But those four-pit cars do have the edge on our Boxsters by some driving-enjoyment metrics.

I don't think you can lump together a catastrophic repair (not part of the plan)
with doing a $7-$12K front-end on an air-cooled NA/Turbo engine which has to be done every x number miles. And only a small % of water-cooled engine need a total engine rebuild/swap. Over the long term on as far as cost to own, a water-cooled engine is by far the cheaper alternative. Well...unless you never drive the car but what's the point of having a sports car sitting in a glass bottle. If you're going to do that go buy a Jag or Merc.

Somewhere? :D How about this very forum less than a month ago? And by the looks of the photos, TheStone's 996.1 was hardly in average cosmetic or mechanical condition. A real enthusiast-owned cherry.
And guess what....that wasn't the first or even fifth 996 I saw go for $10-$12K. As a matter of fact there's a post right now on Rennlist for a 996 Cabriolet w/ 18" wheels purchased for $11.5k (picture).
The only people selling moderate to high mileage early 996's near to $20K are people who found a buyer with more money than knowledge. $20K is the retail price for a guy who stumbles onto Autotrader and spots a dealership's marked up price for a 996 that they picked up for peanuts at Manheim auctions. Search the direct from the seller classifieds on Craigslist and the car forums and you'll see that expectation level for the mileage and condiditon of a standard early 996.1 listing for ~$20K demands a nearly immaculate car.

Here are unofficial production numbers for early 996's.

1998: 9248
1999: 28,040
2000: 20,979
2001: 27,275
Total: 85,542

And there's about another 100K 996.2's right behind those..

996 AWD cars (C4 and Turbo) poduce more understeer than perhaps any water-cooled Porsche. Any slight bit of the rear stepping out and it cuts power to the rear which then...produces even more understeer than it already has.
Not a car you want to race with.

Pothole, the 944 may be misunderstood by some, but as a previous owner, not by me. The original 986 was anything but a 'luxury barge' - in fact, the leather interior in my 944 was no more or less luxurious than my 2000 986 (neither using absolutely top-of-the-line materials or assembly). The 986, as a roadster, will obviously have less torsional rigidity than a hardtop, but it was nevertheless quite rigid for the time of its introduction. Curb weight is not much greater in the early 986's than in the 944's: 2601 lbs for the 944 S2 versus 2773 lbs. for my 2000 Boxster 2.7. When one considers that this includes the installation of air bags and the additional weight required for a convertible top, they can hardly be described as 'barges'.

The fastest of the normally aspirated 944's, the 2.7 litre S2 had 163 HP and 150 lb/ft of torque; my car has 217 HP and 192 lb./ft of torque; what is more, due to variable valve timing, the torque and power curves are much flatter in the 986. This, in conjunction with a more slippery shape as permitted by the mid-engine design (and more attention to wind tunnel analysis) makes it easy to see why the 986 is a MUCH faster and more flexible car than even the S2 version of the 944.

Driving enjoyment metrics? Not sure what that means, but the 986 has better braking, lateral acceleration, acceleration and top speed - all in addition to the joys of open air motoring and the incredible exhaust note. Understand that the mid-engine placement in the 986 creates less weight transference forward under braking, improving both balance and reducing dive. It is no mere coincidence that all pure racing cars designed over the last 50 years use mid-engine placement.

What is more, the horizontally opposed flat 6 in the boxster creates a lower center of gravity than the L4 that was used in the 944. A small difference, perhaps, but every little bit adds up in terms of handling and balance.

Yes, my 944 was a good car and a blast to drive - but it was in no way as fun, fast and capable as my 986.

Brad