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-   -   IMS Guardian Question (http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/43251-ims-guardian-question.html)

thomasotten 02-21-2013 09:51 AM

IMS Guardian Question
 
Concerning the IMS guardian. How far apart are the two contact points? In other words, if there is never a situation where metal should be present in the oil system, it seems that the contact points should be very close together. Judging from this picture, it seems like a significant amount of metal shavings could occur prior to detection. Is the spacing such to prevent false alarms?

http://www.theimsguardian.com/wp-con..._o-300x225.jpg


Also, any word on the Jr version?

Jake Raby 02-21-2013 10:04 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The spacing was purposely set through extensive development to ensure that false positives from extended oil service intervals would not occur. The IMSG Sensor is a true Magnetic CHIP Detector, not developed to be as sensitive to typical ferromagnetic "fuzz" from normal engine wear that can cause a false positive.

The IMSG Jr. uses the same exact MCD Sensor, but a different interface and is a universally applicable system that does not integrate as factory in the Porsche dash, like the IMSG Sr. does (for cars pre 2005). The IMSG Jr. is now available.

LN Engineering now sells these units and we are only the manufacturers.

Here is a sample of the type of material the IMSG MCD is designed to detect.

recycledsixtie 02-21-2013 10:18 AM

Jake - how many Boxster engines has the Guardian saved so far?

thomasotten 02-21-2013 12:11 PM

Ims
 
That sounds great. From your experience is there an instantaneous type of failure that the guardian would not detect? I suppose that would be less likely.

thomasotten 02-21-2013 01:43 PM

found
 
Found my answer here, post #5
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/36258-ims-guardian.html

Jake Raby 02-21-2013 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recycledsixtie (Post 328470)
Jake - how many Boxster engines has the Guardian saved so far?

We have no idea.. With a lot of the units sold overseas and to other areas where people make no contact with us, its really hard to say.

Jake Raby 02-21-2013 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasotten (Post 328476)
That sounds great. From your experience is there an instantaneous type of failure that the guardian would not detect? I suppose that would be less likely.

Yes, we had a crankshaft break in half and the unit detected the failure after the engine stopped running... Not like anything can tell you when your crank is about to shear in half, since wear metals don't exist until it grenades.

thomasotten 02-21-2013 02:09 PM

ordered
 
I just ordered one from the Pelican.

This seems like such a good idea.

Why wouldn't every car benefit from at least a magnetic drain plug? Or would that work against the manufacturers in court? I could imagine photos of a drain plug with metalic sludge on it being a very easy way to prove to a jury that the engine was defective prior to failure.

Jake Raby 02-21-2013 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasotten (Post 328494)
I just ordered one from the Pelican.

This seems like such a good idea.

Why wouldn't every car benefit from at least a magnetic drain plug? Or would that work against the manufacturers in court? I could imagine photos of a drain plug with metalic sludge on it being a very easy way to prove to a jury that the engine was defective prior to failure.

Aircooled Porsches had magnetic drain plugs... Then the accountants took over.

Perfectlap 02-21-2013 02:38 PM

Does the Guardian signal non-IMSB related metals that are potentially problematic (ie not normal engine wear)?
As in can malignant debris often be too small for detection like the benign?

just wondering if having the LN IMSB and the Guardian is overkill/redundant.

san rensho 02-21-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby (Post 328466)
The spacing was purposely set through extensive development to ensure that false positives from extended oil service intervals would not occur. The IMSG Sensor is a true Magnetic CHIP Detector, not developed to be as sensitive to typical ferromagnetic "fuzz" from normal engine wear that can cause a false positive.

The IMSG Jr. uses the same exact MCD Sensor, but a different interface and is a universally applicable system that does not integrate as factory in the Porsche dash, like the IMSG Sr. does (for cars pre 2005). The IMSG Jr. is now available.

LN Engineering now sells these units and we are only the manufacturers.

Here is a sample of the type of material the IMSG MCD is designed to detect.

Jake, is a motor that has shed that much metal a candidate for an IMSB replacement, or does the motor have to be torn apart and rebuilt?

Jake Raby 02-22-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap (Post 328501)
Does the Guardian signal non-IMSB related metals that are potentially problematic (ie not normal engine wear)?
As in can malignant debris often be too small for detection like the benign?

just wondering if having the LN IMSB and the Guardian is overkill/redundant.

Absolutely, as long as the levels are high enough to be detected. Thus far the IMSG has detected failing camshafts, lifters, timing chains, rod bearings, main bearings and I am sure that it doesn't stop there. The IMSG monitors every ferro-magnetic wear component within the engine. This isn't limited to just the IMSB.

Quote:

Jake, is a motor that has shed that much metal a candidate for an IMSB replacement, or does the motor have to be torn apart and rebuilt?
Thats a personal preference situation and will vary depending on who you ask....

That said, I know too much and have experienced these engines enough to check the entire engine for collateral damage before moving on with any resurrection after the loss of an IMSB. We are too proficient here not to take the engine apart. At this point I am fairly sure that Blake could assemble one blindfolded. Its a breeze after what we've been through, developed, experienced and applied.

Others will do everything possible to keep from disassembling the engine. They usually just waste more time and prolong the pain; the only way around the problem is straight through the middle of it.

Perfectlap 02-22-2013 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby (Post 328669)
Thus far the IMSG has detected failing camshafts, lifters, timing chains, rod bearings, main bearings and I am sure that it doesn't stop there. The IMSG monitors every ferro-magnetic wear component within the engine. This isn't limited to just the IMSB.
.

Would any of those trip a CEL? as in before it was too late to fix anything..

Jake Raby 02-22-2013 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap (Post 328671)
Would any of those trip a CEL? as in before it was too late to fix anything..

You can leave the gas cap loose and get a CEL.... You can sling a rod through the block and never see a fault code.

Of the cars we see weekly here that are failed 2/3 of them never had a fault code or CEL before they expired. The OBDII system is more centered around emissions than anything else.

Engines don't have to gain permission before they break.

Perfectlap 02-22-2013 05:44 PM

c'mon who doesn't love a surprise...

on a serious note, when you do detect those failures that you mention, how often is it cost effective to address them vs. punting for a replacement engine?
I ask because I have no idea how involved these sorts of repairs are to peform and I'm thinking of taking some preventative measures. I have no plans of ditching this car at this point.

Jake Raby 02-23-2013 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectlap (Post 328679)
c'mon who doesn't love a surprise...

on a serious note, when you do detect those failures that you mention, how often is it cost effective to address them vs. punting for a replacement engine?
I ask because I have no idea how involved these sorts of repairs are to peform and I'm thinking of taking some preventative measures. I have no plans of ditching this car at this point.


Here we always address the issues. Its outside our faith to just swap in another engine, doing that is for those who lack the skills and proficiency to intervene internally.

Unlike most you'll experience we look forward to internal exploration and repair with these engines. I'd rather resurrect an engine after a failure (when it makes sense) as to create a reconstructed engine for the car, even though the latter is more lucrative.

We have fun with this stuff, which is the biggest key to being the best in the industry.

Anyway, ALWAYS carry out preventive measures. Proactive is always better than reactive.

recycledsixtie 02-23-2013 07:19 AM

I would like to say how happy I am with my IMS Guardian. I have had my Boxster almost 2 years and the Guardian installed about 1.5 years. It was the second major purchase after having had CV joints done. I drive it year round from +80 to -20F and don't worry about the engine. Will get the ims/clutch done a few years from now as the car only has 40k miles on it. :)As Jake says be proactive with servicing. Frequent oil/filter changes are a must.

Bfan 02-23-2013 08:03 AM

Same her, It was my first project after I got the car and the one I appreciate most. I am probably one of those overseas buyers but I would like to use the opportunity to thank Jake for everything.
Gunnlaugur, Reykjavik

recycledsixtie 02-23-2013 08:52 AM

Bfan reminds me that a thank you is in order Jake. I would think that being in business it is easy for people to hand out crap and abuse to the bus. owners. So thanks Jake for a job well done!

Jake Raby 02-23-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recycledsixtie (Post 328744)
Bfan reminds me that a thank you is in order Jake. I would think that being in business it is easy for people to hand out crap and abuse to the bus. owners. So thanks Jake for a job well done!

Thanks guys. It's not like it used to be in regard to selling things. Today I only want to develop and solve problems with engines.

To be recognized is really nice sometimes.


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