IMSB replacement option?
 

right after christmas im having the clutch replaced in my 2002S. Per smart protocol, i will be replacing the IMSB and RMS at the same time. I will be ordering the parts from pelican because i will be upgrading to a 987 clutch package which i hear is a mild upgrade. My question is, i see they offer a less expensive non ceramic bearing that appears to be a slightly upgraded direct replacement. Has anyone gone this route? I think it may be good for me because my plan is to keep the car for only 2 more years then get a 987 or cayman, 2 years driving for me will be about 15-17,000 miles...

Honestly if it were me and I was only going to keep the car for 2 more years I'd leave the IMS bearing alone if the cover wasn't leaking and everything looked good. The Pelican bearing is basically the same as what's in there now. I think it all depends on your worry threshold. Odds are still in your favor for nothing catastrophic happening.

Steve

I plan to replace the IMSB/RMS/ clutch in my 01S early next year. I plan to keep the car for a long time so I'll install the LN option.

If you plan to sell the car in two years, why replace the IMSB and RMS at all? I suspect either buyers won't know/won't care about the IMSB issue or they would only pay a premium for a LN bearing install. If you're doing it for 2 years of peace of mind, then the low cost choice seems the way to go.

All of that said, I've yet to see hard numbers on the relative reliability of the LN v Pelican v Porsche bearings. My sense is the ceramic bearings are the best by far, but it's just a sense.

good advice, my car has 87,000 miles and i have no service history of the clutch or ims being replaced so im assuming its all original, seems the ims failures are in lower mileage cars but not always-i try not to worry but i do a little-last thing i need is a 2900 lb paper weight in my garage..my mechanic is also trying to sell me on a LN bearing like its the last one on earth, but id rather not buy one because of the totally over inflated price based on nothing but fear and possibility

Seems to me that if you want to quell the fear, the replacement would be a good option. For those looking at purchasing a Boxster in CA they may be looking for the LN replacement. I've noticed as well there isn't much of a shortage of the PCar in CA as well. It may be two-fold to replace the bearing for peace of mind and as a selling point if you are looking to do a private sale in a couple years.

no intention of hi jacking the thread, but i didn't know i can put the 987S clutch on my car.
pelican parts shows to clutch kits for the 987s

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1355939644.jpg

can someone be kind enough to tell me which one i need?


thanks in advance.

Meir.

Meir I think these are both the same (check the details to see if one comes with extra parts) it must for the extra $$$...
The first one is good for 05-06 987S and 07-08 987 non-S, the second for 07-08 987-S I would think you will need the first one (now i'm confused) LOL
As far as I understood the 987S clutch will fit the 986S and the stock 987 clutch will fit the 986 (non-s) - but I didnt realize there was two different 987-S
clutches 05-06 and 07-08. I think the friction material is a bit different and the spring might be a bit stiffer. Personally i would just go with the 986S Sachs
clutch it hasnt let me down yet and lasts just fine.

thanks Heiko.
from a quick search i did, i read some posts that say the 987 clutch is a bit softer (but again, a new clutch will be always softer then the old one).
i now noticed that the pic is not that clear.
the first one (710$) is part # 987-116-913-23-M38
the second (441$) is part # 987-116-913-32-M38

I was looking at the need to replace my clutch at 92,000 miles and I intended to keep my car forever and I still did nothing about the IMS. Call me stupid if you want, but I replaced the clutch and figured that if the original IMS bearing lasted for 10 years and 92,000 miles then it was likely to keep going. I am at 120,000 miles now with no problems. Of course, your mileage may vary.

i am beginning to think the same way you do but the pelican bearing at 165.00 might give me a bit more peace of mind, like many others im still on the ims fence

Since I joined this forum back in 2005 two regular posters to this forum ended up with a blown engine via failed IMSB. And one had more than one IMS failure to boot. Point is these weren't people who joined because their IMS grenaded the engine and came to 986forum.com to rant. They were already here... and there really arent' THAT many regular posters even though there are a ton of registered users.

As for the price, the labor is a wash because you're doing the clutch, which has real utility and at 70k+ miles my clutch was on its final stretch. The job isn't like a premptory engine rebuild that serves no other purpose. As for the parts, I can't really think of another time where the aftermarket stepped in, engineered a product to address a significant design flawe to a vitally important component, which the manufacturer had no interest in putting in the time and effort, at less than $1000.

Say you spent $15K for what was once a $50K car. Usually with high end cars, repair costs do NOT scale down with age. Talk to a Merc owner. The cost of LN IMSB is peanuts given the function it plays. Put it this way, some m96 Porsche engines require an entire engine rebuild to address the IMS issue. $$$$$. We're getting off easy.

May I ask a few questions?

how often have you changed the oil and filter? And how often (daily, weekly, monthly) do you drive the car and do you generally keep it at least 3K RPM?
Also, which oil have you been using?

I suspect how the car is handled has a lot to do with how the IMSB holds up.

For me, this would be an easy decision.

If I was going to replace the IMSB, I would unquestionably choose the LN Engineering bearing. My reason is simple. One of the most respected Porsche dealers in my area installs the LN bearing as a preventive measure against catastrophic engine failure. That says a lot to me.

BTW: In an earlier post today in this thread, I said I had not seen any hard data on bearing reliability. I looked at LN Engineering's write up today about the IMB kits and numbers are provided. See the 3rd paragraph from the bottom of the IMS 101 page: IMS 101 | IMS Retrofit. The reported reliability is truly impressive

^ I read that too. Although if I were them I would add some background on the 6 single row IMSBs that did fail. Some people just focus on the number and not the percentage of the total.

I went with the cheap bearing because I'm planning to do a full tear-down of the engine in the next year and a half. The pelican parts people I think had this in mind, and the kit was intended to be a stop gap. If I were not going to do any motor mods I would of used the ceramic bearing and drove it until the car died.

Just a data point to add to the mix. I have an 02S with 57K that has been driven aggressively 5 mornings a week (I have a great 10 mile back road commute). Prior to 2010 it was driven 4K per year according to DMV/service records. I bought the car in June of this year (it had ~52.5K on the clock). The more I drove it the more paranoid I became, after all, it's a 10 year old, low milage car with unknown oil service intervals...and the RMS was weeping!

I had the LN bearing and updated RMS installed with a new clutch after 1000 miles of ownership. I was eager to see the old IMSB and gain proof that I'd saved my motor from a defective design. Boy was I disappointed. My old bearing was perfect. No play, no wear, no missing plastic cover. I am still glad I did it, but I think that trying to connect certain engine RPMs or mileage patterns or even oil service intervals to failures is a tenuous exercise at best.

Some just fail, regardless of how old they are, how fast the are spun or how often the fluids are changed. Everything I've seen and read leads me to believe that a 986 engine's fate is somehow sealed at the factory. I believe the design is flawed in general but think that most failures are tied to some "unknown to us" variable in the assembly process. Even if Porsche knew what that variable was, it would be more cost effective for them to simply wait out the failures than recall the whole lot.

Just one man's opinion based on anecdotal evidence and intuition.