Do I Walk Away or Buy It & Fix It?
 

I am supposed to be picking up my 1999 Boxster early next week. After looking at the CarFax report and noticing that most of all its service was done at a Porsche dealer, I decided to call them and see what service information they would share with me. The service manager was great and he new the car well. He said it did not have the IMS done yet but it had been in for two air conditioning recharges this past summer and fall. In Sept. a dye test was performed and the pair of front condensers had small leaks. In September it was in their shop for a rough idle and they recommended all new coils (they had cracks) and plugs, the owner opted to do only the one failed coil and he also opted for new front rotors and pads and an oil change as he had stated that he was going to be trading it in and did not want to sink a bunch of money into it. The service manager said that if I attempted to change any of the five plugs, the coils would most likely fall apart during the process.

So for peace of mind it appears that If I did go forward I would need to do this hit list early on in this order.

1 - 5 Coils & Plugs
2 - IMS & Clutch or IMS Guardian
3 - Serpentine Belt
4 - AC Condensers

I do not mind wrenching and at times really enjoy it. How easy is it to replace the condensers? I have watched the IMS replacement and while the bearing is not to much of a job, how much of a job is dropping the transmission to get to that point? The plugs seem to be a job I would dig into. How hard is it to replace the coils?

Thanks in advance for everyone's input and advice.

If this is a car you are really serious about, get a PPI. Then, a lot depends on the miles and price.

There are so many used Boxsters out there it is a buyers market. Just based on what you have posted, I would pass. Anyone that doesn't do the small maintenance items has definitely skipped the bigger ones.

+1 Chuck nailed it, unless for some reason you are enchanted with this car. Any Porsche owner that utters the words "I didn't want to put a bunch of money in it" is a guy I would walk away from.

Chuck,

Thanks for your reply. Actually it had been maintained very well by the Porsche dealer that sold it new in 1999 and and up through its owners after that.

It was only this past summer when the current owner needed to recharge the AC a couple of times and then had a rough idle and misfire did he decide to trade it in. He fixed the bad coil and front brakes then traded it in. Other than that it is in exceptional condition.

I just spoke to the dealer that I am set to close on this and explained to them my concerns over the coils and condensers. They are going to get back to me. He also mentioned that all of their certified (by them) used cars come with a 3 year/100K mile power-train warranty. I wonder how they would deal with an IMS failure....

Here are a couple of pics.

Definitely get a PPI. Then use the full info from it to negotiate price hard.

A Boxster is one of the easiest vehicle to wrench on. That said, and even though it's a 13 almost 14 yo vehicle, many parts are priced like it's a brand new $60k Boxster. FWIW, replacing condensers is easy w/ simple removal of bumper skin.

Good luck but don't be afraid to move on as there are countless nice Boxsters out there for sale.

:)

Don't wonder whether they would replace an item like the IMS ask them and if it's yes get it in writing. I disagree with Boxster being an easy car to wrench on. That is totally dependent on what's wrong with it. Rebuilding an engine with quad camshafts, variable valve timing and in some cases five chains is not a small block V8 job.

PS It looks nice but my roller would have looked just as nice parked in tandem, with 29K on the clock, remember that

This car shows well but being at a Porsche dealership they likely want top $$$$ for it. Dont buy the first one you see(or fall in love with it - kind of like women!)Look at others. I bought a 2001 Boxster 2 years ago. I tried a 99 911 and a Boxster before I decided on the one I got. Definitely have a PPI done on the one u decide on.

I prefer buying privately as I like to meet the seller. Each one to their own. I have had installed the ims guardian and spent about $3k in the 1.5 years I have owned it. The other posters have excellent comments. Again do not be in a hurry.

how much do they want for it?

and if its coming with a 3 year warranty I think thats a great deal, most used cars come with the "ha ha now its your problem" warranty

recycledsixtie, It's actually at a Honda dealer a few towns away from the Porsche dealer. If I choose to fix everything that concerns me at this point it looks like this.

Around $2,350.

5x coils and 6x plugs = $250
2x AC condesers = $650
1x IMS Bearing Kit w/tool (LN) = $800
1x Clutch Kit w/tool = $500
1x Oil filter and Oil = $80
1x Serpentine Belt OEM = $60

Plus a winter of garage wrenching (Therapy).

rayner@r2specracing,

I am paying $12,400. which includes the $400 3yr. Powertrain Warranty.

I am trying to get them to pickup the replacement of the coils and condensers.

I am not thinking that they will pick up the condensers but I bet they come back with an offer to take care of 5 new coils and plugs.

I have looked at a bunch, but I was specifically looking for a dark blue with tan interior. I have always preferred tan or beige interiors in all my vehicles. I even make that criteria when I rent vehicles (which I do as much as drive my own).

Why are there so few with this color combination?

Sounds like the biggest selling point for you is the color combination...and I fully understand that, you have to like looking at the car you buy. Have you hung out on this forum for a while, members do sell their cars and some of them are really nice. If you have read about doing the IMS and it seems easy then doing the coils is a piece of cake. Dropping the transmission the first time is a pretty big job, I did it. Next time would be a breeze.

How long have you been looking? On this particular car I would get a PPI for sure. The selling dealer should also agree to do the AC work or they agree to drop it by that much.

You are doing the right homework and asking the right questions. If the IMS not being changed will bother you I would keep looking and find one that has it done and spend the extra money.

Good luck!

WhipE350,

I appreciate your feedback. Well they got back to me and just as I expected, they are going to do the five coils and six plugs. I am going to squeeze them for $$ towards the condensers but they already stated that they will not do them.

As for the IMS, I actually do want to do it myself as it is some wrenching experience that I want to do as well. I used to take apart Triumph TR6's down to the frame and rebuild them from scratch. It has been about 25 years since I did that last. but I miss it. So it will be good.

V rod, maybe they wont eat the total condenser replacement cost but you might try negotiating for a reduced rate on that repair before you buy it.

Why would a good dealer retail a car that is broken ? Dealers wholesale cars that have problems that would put them upside down in cost vs sale price. Be careful. Get everything in writing, no verbal bs.

Car looks great, price is good, Nada say retail 13.4k, high trade in 10.4, so you still have some room to negotiate. When dealers take a car in trade, they always negotiate so that they will still make money if they get low trade in for the car, which is around wholesale, in your case around 7.8k. If you want the car, start at 8k, pointing out all the repairs that have to be done and see what their counter is.

As far as replacing the IMSB, if it comes with a 3 yr power train warranty, why in the world replace right away? Wait until the warranty is about to expire and then do it.

Is it just me, or does the Temp. on the gauge show a little on the high side?

I would budget for a water pump as well.

Everyone makes it sound like you should pass because it needs work. How many 14 yr old used cars are pristine? If you're going in with eyes wide open, I say go for it.

I'd say its a lucky thing to find a car that has a maintenance and service history... many cars for sale are impossible to track. So knowing you have access to the full service history means a lot... if the car is flawless other than a few item you now know it needs then I would say, "take the costs to catch up the servicing into consideration" and if the cost is still good, you'll have a near perfect car, with all the services done and have the full history - hard to beat

Right color combo, service history, dealer taking care of some of the obvious - I would go for it IF you feel good about it. No matter what, plan on spending some money. I spread my search far and wide and took my time to find what I wanted. No matter which one you end up getting, there is just no way to know when the next component will break. The power train warranty will help ease your mind.

V-rod:

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet. It concerns the A/C.

I'd suggest having the A/C system fully leak tested using a sniffer. Your biggest concern is whether the evaporators leaks. If it is leaking, you are facing a complete removal of the dash. It's about a 10 hour job out and in. While out, you'll need to replace the evaporator with a new space conditioning box with a new evaporator already installed inside or a rebuild of the box with a new evaporator. The box is sealed and must be opened up to remove the evaporator.

My local dealer charges $1800 for the box with evaporator. I've seen other dealers charge about $1300. I think Pelican sells the same OEM box with evaporator for about $700. I've seen evaporators themselves sell for about $250.

If the system is fully charged, the shop should test for a leak under the dash. If a leak is detected, it could be the expansion valve or the evaporator. A dye test on my car revealed that the expansion valve was leaking even though the shop detected refrigerant inside the passenger compartment.Apparently, the fan was sucking the refrigerant into the car. If you don't find a leak inside the car, the most likely the condensers are the source of the loss of refrigerant. As others have mentioned, these are easy to replace after removing the bumper cover.

The pictures look great

Thom

Ok, I heard back from the seller/dealer and they are going to cover sending the car over to the Porsche dealer to have 5 new coils and six new spark plugs installed.

They will not budge on the condensers.

I am OK with this deal and I will be picking up the car on Monday or Tuesday next week.

BTW, spoke with the Porsche service manager and this car already had the serpentine belt done in Sept. along with oil change and filter. So I should be in pretty good shape, since I do not need the air conditioning for a while. I will tackle the IMS bearing, clutch and condensers in late February.

Beelzy; Good catch. I am not sure. I bet the car had been sitting their idling for a while. Anyone else care to comment on this?

Temp is a bit high but not alarmingly so. Car could have been driven around and then photographed while idling for quite a while. Monitor the temps after you pick up the car and go from there.

I have never seen my temp gauge show this high, even after long idling in 90 degree weather. Note the outside temp in the picture is 56 degrees.

May want to ask if the powertrain warranty covers the cooling system.

Caveat emptor!

If it was me I would have walked by now and would be looking elsewhere. I must admit I am not a wrencher and this car has too many issues - air cond., coil packs etc to name a few. It sounds like u want to work on it. Perhaps you have already put $$$ down on it and feel committed. Even if I was a wrencher I would walk. PPI is mandatory. If u insist on getting it a poster above suggests $8k. There are too many issues with this car.

That evaporator behind the dash story would be enough for me to head for the exits.

The odds of the evaporator leaking are really low especially because the dye test showed leakage in the condenser.

I suggested a 'sniffer' test because the evaporator is in a sealed box where one cannot see dye directly. A sniffer test there would reveal a leak.

If a sniffer test was done in the evaporator area when the dye test was, then the evaporator should be OK.

My two cents worth, Porsche cars are very dependable when given good care. With that said, nothing on a Porsche is cheap except the air in the tires, so the old adage is true "you have to pay to play".

This is not a car that is designed to be used as a large cargo hauler, family mini van or anything other than to take two people and and some kit on an adventure. It is in short, a luxury item, a car you buy because you want what it can deliver. IF you are spending an uncomfortable amount of money to buy this, and repairs scare you it may not be the car for you.

My 98 had 20K more miles than this car and was running at the same level as yours is today. I put close to $8000.00 in parts alone into the car to make sure I could trust the operation where ever I went. I did the work so there was no labor costs added in. In short, I wanted the car for what it offers, top down crisp enjoyable driving experience and it was a treat to me for the reason I work.

Personally, I would have no problem buying a car in this condition. Good luck with your decision.

If you feel comfortable with it...go for it.
 

IMO, I think the dealer has been pretty accommodating with you so far. I have no doubt they have much less in the car than what they are asking as car's with that mileage and year model sell for 9-11k all the time where I live but that does not necessarily mean they are in as good of condition either. Having some form of service history means a lot to me. The water temp looks fine...mine stays around that range all the time. People that have no interest in working on a car run from a car like this I guess...if you do not mind getting your hands dirty and are getting a good deal you can save plenty of money taking care of the issues you have mentioned yourself. I would not let them scare you away as some of them would only feel secure with the warranty and peace of mind a brand new car would provide and that is their choice.

Price on this 99 Is Way,Way too high. last year I bought it 2002 Boxster with 61,000 miles on it for $9,000 previous owner had more than $6000 repair receipts for the car. car drove and looked like new and is a great color black on black with tan interior.

My old 99 Boxster that I purchased over 4 years ago from a dealership I paid $9400 for out the door. I would definitely pass on this one certainly much cheaper boxers out there or at least get a much newer one for the same price.

Good luck finding a Porsche it is a buyers market out there.

In fairness Novi might not be the norm in prices, when I lived in Michigan the ill feelings toward imports was almost palpable. I bought a 280ZX near Novi and it wasn't like there was a waiting line to purchase it.

Yes geography definitely effects price. When I searched for a Boxster nationally, I was able to find my preferred color and options at a bit better price but had to take into consideration that I would have to pay to have it shipped and that would be after I flew out there and drove it. Then what if I did have an issue that I needed to go back to the seller. Too much hassle for me. The positive things like locally owned and serviced by the original dealer, 100% service records available to me anytime far outweighed the negatives. So when I pick it up on Tuesday, the ONLY actual problem with the car is the condensers. I am fine with that!

One of the best vehicles I ever owned was a 1986 Mercedes 300E. I paid 6K for it with 92K miles. It looked great, but needed a heap of work. I sunk 6K into it and everyone laughed at me saying "ha-ha you spent $12,000 for an '86 Benz with 100K miles". Well I drove that car for 8 years and sold it for $2000 with 266K miles. I drove this car 20K miles a year and loved it. I only sold it because my wife and I had twins after my daughter and the car was just not suited as a family vehicle.

As far as my enjoying working on my own vehicles (toy vehicles only) goes back to my British sports car days. With those you had better like to get dirty. Heck I used to carry a complete kit of condensers, points, lights switches, etc. but I loved those cars. So now I am getting the German roadster and I will have a lot of good times with it!

I have a 99, and when it get's warmed up, it always tops out about where his temp. gauge is. Looks like about 185?
What should be the top out temperature if this is too hot?

I have owned mine now for about three months, and love it.
I think I'm due for a clutch, since it engages approximately 2-3 inches from the top.
Figure that's a good time to get the IMS retrofit. It currently has around 74,000 miles. Don't have any idea what's been done, since there were no good service records. But I figure it's the factory clutch.

The last two times I have had it out, I have smelled, a slight sweet, antifreeze odor. (but my passenger did not. May have actually been the passenger, haha...) It does not, and never has leaked in my garage. Maybe it's leaking somewhere so slightly that it burns up prior to parking?

Any ideas?

Maybe check the rear trunk? Could the coolant tank be leaking??

[QUOTE=V-Rod;315376]rayner@r2specracing,

I am paying $12,400. which includes the $400 3yr. Powertrain Warranty.

I am trying to get them to pickup the replacement of the coils and condensers.

I am not thinking that they will pick up the condensers but I bet they come back with an offer to take care of 5 new coils and plugs.

I have looked at a bunch, but I was specifically looking for a dark blue with tan interior. I have always preferred tan or beige interiors in all my vehicles. I even make that criteria when I rent vehicles (which I do as much as drive my own).

Why are there so few with this color combination?[/QUOTE]

$12K is alot for a 99 Box

As far as the color rarity, it may have been the 1st year the color was offered, so little publicity & optional paint colors start at about $800 & go to $3,000+

Just checked, and everything is dry.
Do I need to take out the carpet looking protectant to check further?
When I first opened the rear trunk, I noticed a very slight hint of antifreeze.
You may be onto something.

Yes.
If the tank is cracked and leaking, the coolant will go under the carpet.
Very common issue in our cars.

Thanks, I will take a look under the carpet this weekend.