Oh yeah! :)

Sorry for putting this Box down. I know its probably not the popular opinion, just mine. :D

I was disappointed that the S no longer has a center radiator, but instead has a fake scoop where the center radiator would have been. Ugh. I like everything else about the car, though... Lower curb weight, more power, better fuel efficiency, and great looks.

Is that supposed to be a response to my reasoned and articulate post? :) I get that you don't like the headlights,no problem with you having such an opinion on them. I too like the carrera's lights better.

But think, man! If the boxster lights looked like the prettier 911's, according to your logic buying one would indicate "insecurity" on the part of the buyer, who is obviously trying to convince people he has a 911!:eek: So,ugly though they be, ugly they must remain, since rounding them just produces more insecurity. :rolleyes:

987s don't have center rad either...

Why, yes. Yes it was. Next time, I'll be sure to clarify that.

My point was never about them looking like a GT's lights, it was that they look generic. The GT post was about something else completely.

Later, bud! :)

I guess this is true, ekam. Started out in 2004, which was still 9x6, but it went through to 07, right?

Drove Panameras, 991s and 981s on track today.

Panameras are very capable but boring. I suppose the performance should impress me, but I just don't care. The 991 and 991S are very close in engine performance. The extra 50hp is very hard to feel. Grip is fantastic. Boxsters are very solid and the balance is fantastic. All the new cars sound great. What an improvement in engine music both inside and outside of the car. PDK is impressive and it's nice to not have to worry about shifting on the track, but the loss of involvement isn't worth it. The 981 is even bigger sitting next to a 986 than pictures show. The 986 looks graceful and purposeful next to the hefty 981. The electric assist steering in both new cars, I don't care what they tell you, is more numb and lighter effort.

The new interiors are WAY too overstyled. Too much jewelry, too many unnecessary angles and creases. Seating position is nice and the seats are hard but feel great though.

There's no comparison, the 986 is much more communicative and connected. The new cars are fast and capable but clearly more isolated from the road, for a fun car on the road, NO contest, 986 hands down.

Blue, thanks for your insights.

As I age, I want a Porsche that is easy to drive yet has gobs of power when I want to use it.

The direction the designs are going are in my direction, although they are obviously engineering the visceral feel and look out of their vehicles.

This may be strategic though and not a mistake. The cars are no longer great for the track, but they will have stripped down versions for more money for sale for that purpose (Cayman type R for example)

Thoughts?

They are better track cars than ever. They are also bigger, more numb, more comfortable, and overstyled. They are GTs. Awesome GTs. I like GTs, but I LOVE sports cars.

Blue; Somehow you seem to have answered most of the questions I've had about the new models. I have a 986 base with a stick and within a couple of years I'd like to get either a 981S or a 991 base coupe. I've never really wanted a 911 before, but the 991 coupe is, IMHO, stunning. What were your thoughts about the differences in between the 981 and 991?

Your comment about the PDK pretty much resolves my belief that I'm going to have to stay with a stick to get the sports car feel. Maybe if I was 30 years younger I'd get the same sensation from the PDK, but too old to change.

My advice is to keep the base 986 and ignore everything you see about any newer model. They never got better.

But to answer your question, I prefer the balance of the Boxster. Every 911 I've driven, from 1977 to 2013, has a quirky extra push on the rear wheels through significant corners. I feel it in every 911. It's clearly discernable that the engine is in the wrong place.

On the street, 400hp is totally useless. Even 315hp is overkill. I didn't get to drive any non-S 981s, but they're probably 99% of what you get in the S. Unless you need to prove that you are significant to everyone else, don't bother with the Carrera.

Good advice - thanks. (But I still crave 315 HP!)

Some odd posts here, Guys , this car is way better than your 986 . the 987 was better and the DI motor car even more (the newest porsche is the best porsche) . The 981 is a serious car and I am 100% certain it will smoke a 986 around any track. It will feel good , look good and be luxurious doing it !

Go ahead and crave it, it's sweet to have a car that comes from the factory with so much ability you don't even think about , throttle bodies, headers, air filters and all the other measures to squeak more go out of it. After owning both I completely disagree with blue even though I understand his point.

At first I completely hated the new design, and even when I saw it at the NYAS. However, it had to be the color because I have seen two on the road now and the first time it was nearly dark and it it wasn't for the roof I thought it was a Carrara GT...even the sound as it screamed by. The second one was similar and in the daylight. I have grown to really like this new model!

Chris

Lower, meaner, cheaper, faster


EDIT* this is what I was looking for

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1159150&d=11853.24240&nmt=#seperat or

Troll material right there. :troll::dance:

Having owned a 986 and a 987 and driven both a base and 981S, the new car is better than either car (wouldn't you expect it ?) I respectfully suggest that those that think the 986 is the Holy Grail read this months Grassroots Motorsports mag--a complete comparison of all three models and driven by a Barber school instructor and 3 986 owners. A couple of the 986 owners might have grudgingly kept their praise down, but the instructor was very high on the car. If anything, the article points out much better the 987 was vs. the 986 and on the track, the 987.2 vs. 981 are close.

I understand what the OP was saying about steering feel--the 986 was as responsive as things get. Having said that, I really liked how the new car handles on a auto-x course--turns in quick, lots of traction, minimal role; my 986 wishes it could have handled this well. Additionally,it's more comfortable, quieter and gets better gas mileage than the cars it replaced.

Are their styling miscues?--sure; the silver background on the tach on the S is stupid as are the top vents. But the overall interior and body are great. Hate to say it folks, but raw looking cars aren't going to get it done--typical customers want something that looks higher end.

I expect the market to vote with their wallets on this car and it will sell well.

The new car will do great, is likely a phenomenal ride and might raise the Boxster to the podium it always belonged on. That will be especially true given the new 911 cost and the reality that the mid-engined platform is superior, period. Still don't get the automatic dis of the 987, I have less weight more HP how is it that the 987 still "pales in comparison"? Especially when a new S can approach 95K if you hang enough options on it.

I am satisfied with my 986, and the longer I can keep telling myself that, the better off I am. Everything I read about the 981 is good, except a little whining about the steering, and there is nothing about the styling that I don't like. I was looking at one at a dealership a few days ago and they pulled a ruby red 991 coupe next to it and it took my breath away. I have never been a big 911 fan, but this year it's perfect. (No clue what it drives like, but from everything I've read so far, the Boxster is more fun to drive.)

Did I mention that I AM SATISFIED WITH MY 986? I AM SATISFIED WITH MY 986! I AM SATISFIED WITH MY 986......

I think the only down fall for the new car is its high price . The dealer near me has had one S model on the lot for about a month. not going to sell in volume like the old 986.

if porsche decides to make a light weight version of the new car i'm sure it will surpass the 987 spyder easily (hopefully with a better roof)
.

Sure it will, I don't know about easily but time marches forward. They will keep tweaking the HP and weight to make sure every new buyer has performance bragging rights and to keep their competition at bay.

However, for now speaking for myself I'm even more convinced I made the right choice. As for the roof, it's just fine maybe a touch more noisy but it is purposeful. Either you embrace the spirit of the car or not, it's not for everyone to say the least. I've had it on three times all summer so I'll take the weight savings and total lack of all that mechanized linkage that causes fits as the cars age; I also think it will last longer (always out of the sun) and will be so easy to duplicate any boat canvass maker worth their salt could make you a better than OEM version.

All the reviews I've read are underwhelming on the electronic steering. The engineers make a very good argument for it, safer (no highly flamable fluids anymore), doesn't divert HP, saves gas at stop lights, etc. but it still means that the 987 Boxster Spyder will always be the best handling Boxster from a driver's perspective.

The new Boxster front end looks the best of any Porsche sold today (imho). But the doors still look really gimmicky to me and the cruise ship captain's cockpit is totally out place for a roadster. I can see it working in Panamera or Carrera (cars for fat cats).

one drive in that cruise ship cockpit and you will get a real sense of how old and outdated the 986 is. their is nothing wrong with some luxury in a sports car. let's face it 99% of us use the car on public roads . I actually find the 986 steering to be annoying at times with all its "feel" . their are things you want to feel and things you don't. Porsche knows this and has been dialing out all the annoying stuff with each model update. I think I would prefer the new steering.

The new steering has less to do with "dialing in wheel feel" than it does meeting future mileage standards by reducing parasitic drag, all the manufacturers are heading that way.

Nobody has been talking about how the move to the new steering gear removes one of the more problematic areas of the car, for people that take their cars to the track.
Go to the Cayman board to see all the issues on how the PS unit fails or leaks at the track or what happens when that fluid gets dumped in a hot engine compartment. A fellow had his car burn at a DE when the fluid ignited. Not sure if it was a total loss but enough damage to put his car out of commission for a while. It may not happen to all tracked cars, it will definitely get your attention if it happens to you.
You may loose some of the steering feel with the new unit, but I think the others gains out way that negative.

LOL, there are other ways to combat a fluid line that runs too close to the exhaust manifold. It's hardly the right "fix" for that issue.

Glad you said it, that same basic system has been around a long while and has proved itself reliable over the interval.

I wonder how long it has been since many on the board have have driven a 2300 pound sports car with a manual steering rack. Window cranks, manual side view mirrors and -gasp- a live rear axle. It changes your perspective on what a car should feel like. It shouldn't be perfect, it should have character and personality. I am lucky to have this as my benchmark and the cars I drive are compared to it. I guess that's why every generation of Porsche that comes along keeps getting more and more dissapointing to me.

Hmmm, blue2000s, if I was a betting man I'd say your next car is leaning in the Exige direction rather than F355. :)

I am still resisting the temptation to put 18s or wider 17s and more negative camber on "your" car. I am also resisting the temptation to put R compound rubber on it ... not that the tires on it are anywhere near worn out yet, in spite of my higher rate of mileage accumulation. It drives so nice now, I keep reminding myself that it's not broken, so don't F#$@ with it.

You can help with this by asking me periodically how the Miata is coming. :)

For me one week only it's 2100 pounds

Blue, in all seriousness, why don't you look into a vintage car? It's sounds like it would much better match your desires.

Can you imagine what would happen in the media if Porsche produced a modern car with the "character" (flaws) you desire? They would be crucified. You can't turn back time, and unlearn technology.

I'll drive one at some point, but from what I've read, the slight numbness doesn't detract from the driving pleasure. It should also free up some H.P. , though it is a shame to lose some feedback.

Both vehicles have their charms but Stephen makes an excellent point. I can only drive mine a couple miles as the lack of independent suspension in the rear is a lumbar disk pulverizer. It's also a PIA because people in NY all want to go warp nine at the green and stop in eighty feet. Forty year old technology can't do that. I won't even mention what a death ship it would be if hit by one of ten texters you see every single trip in this country, LOL though, you pea brained driving maniacs!

There are a few true sports cars left on the market. If Porsche made one in addition to the GTs, they'd be applauded for getting back to basics. But I agree that they can't go back with the current models. It's too bad though that they are moving both cars in the same direction at the same pace. Like I've mentioned before, Porsche no longer makes any cars that interest me. The best ones have already been made.

Hey M - I never changed the wheels because I like the ride and handling better with the 17s. Plus 17s are cheaper for a very minimal performance increase if at all. Besides, I think once you have the Miata set up and you're using it, the urge will go away.

losing feedback is a mortal sin for THIS type of car. Fine for bloated GT or GT-lite or GT styled convertible. Engineering should revolve on avoiding that as much as possible. In fact they should engineer new ways to have MORE feedback.
How? Who knows that's why they rake in millions. It's not very imaginative to simply turn a sports car into a cushy, insulated plush yuppy mover. People are quick to point out that it's lighter, more powerful but it's pretty obvious that these things are driven by arriving at the lowest lap time (N-ring specifically) and not maximizing the driver's role.
But those are two incongruent objectives. Faster N-ring times mean the car must do more and the driver less -- certainly with more and more power that can put the average inexperienced , deep-pocketed driver up a tree with one errant move. So feedback becomes a secondary goal and you get less and less with each new generation. They are slowly destroying the key element of the roadster experience. It's like playing a video game on the easiet level because that's the one where you drive fastest and your mistakes never slow you down.

Blue those 2100 pound cars, have no six airbags, no six speaker stereos, no catalytic converters, no five mile an hour bumpers they can't build one at 2100 anymore, there are too many regulations and crash test metrics to meet.

I think in many ways I'm the type of guy Porsche is designing cars for. I'm in my 60's and I love cars as much as always, and can I afford a nicer car. I read all the reviews and lust over the best handling, most powerful model - even though I will probably never put it on a track. I know the 315 HP on the new Boxster S is completely wasted on me, but knowing it's there and being able to punch it occasionally may help to keep me young. The problem is that after a couple of hours driving in my 986 my back begins to ache a bit and the noise starts to get to me. Enter the 981 - quieter, plusher, luxury interior. Others understandably don't want that, but it works for me.

I apologize to everyone on the forum for being the demographic that drives these changes, but as a kid I had to walk 4 miles to school in 3' of snow....

They can build one at 1200 ... :-)

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