The new Boxster - the triumph of technology over skill?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by southernstar

I will continue to muddle my way through, driving a car with a standard transmission, no traction control...

...and with power steering, electronic fuel injection, ABS, stability control, variable valve timing, electronic brake distribution, and a host of other technologies that improve the driving experience.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by Snowman

...and with power steering, electronic fuel injection, ABS, stability control, variable valve timing, electronic brake distribution, and a host of other technologies that improve the driving experience.

But that's precisely the point. Treat each technology on its merit.

Gear synchros? Don't detract from involvement, do improve gear changing. Tick.

ABS? Rare cuts in on the road when pressing on unless you're hamfisted, possibly a bit more intrusive on track. A qualified tick.

Power steering? Another one that's a bit in between depending on the system in question and preferences.

PDK? Removes gearbox and clutch control from the driver. Reduces involvement. Cross.

We can of course argue the details for each technology. But it's just not true to make this a binary argument in which you must either embrace any new technology or reject it. In other words, it's perfectly logical and reasonable to reject PDK but embrace gear synchros.

Like I said, each on its merits. PDK makes driving so much less fun.

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by pothole

But that's precisely the point. Treat each technology on its merit.

Gear synchros? Don't detract from involvement, do improve gear changing. Tick.

ABS? Rare cuts in on the road when pressing on unless you're hamfisted, possibly a bit more intrusive on track. A qualified tick.

Power steering? Another one that's a bit in between depending on the system in question and preferences.

PDK? Removes gearbox and clutch control from the driver. Reduces involvement. Cross.

We can of course argue the details for each technology. But it's just not true to make this a binary argument in which you must either embrace any new technology or reject it. In other words, it's perfectly logical and reasonable to reject PDK but embrace gear synchros.

Like I said, each on its merits. PDK makes driving so much less fun.

Simply stated this is wrong, in the right hands a PDK car would kick your butt no matter how close to an Andretti you might think you're shifting.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

Simply stated this is wrong, in the right hands a PDK car would kick your butt no matter how close to an Andretti you might think you're shifting.

Eh, who said anything about being fast? Not me. I'm interested in maximum enjoyment. Whether I'm fast or no is a separate matter.

Also, it's not wrong that you lose control of the gearbox and clutch. This is a very simple, very demonstrable fact. They are controlled by computer actuators. The end.

I'm completely groovy with people preferring PDK, but I don't understand why they so frequently talk utter nonsense in defence of it.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by pothole

Eh, who said anything about being fast? Not me. I'm interested in maximum enjoyment. Whether I'm fast or no is a separate matter.

For some people it's hard to separate the two, apparently.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by pothole

Eh, who said anything about being fast? Not me. I'm interested in maximum enjoyment. Whether I'm fast or no is a separate matter.

Well, if we want fast we'd all be driving vettes won't we?

[ekam]

I bet that doesn't have a 3rd pedal.

Woman Driver Breakes Into Grocery Store With Her Porsche - YouTube

[dewolf]

To me driving a sports car should be engaging. Having the shifter in your hand and blipping the throttle as you heel and toe on the downchange while you push the lever forward is a well sychronsied event, and a learned skill. A manual gearbox is as engaging as it gets when you are drving in a sporting manner. I am at the moment teaching my 16 year old how to drive a manual in my Boxster. How to approach a corner and when to downshift, accelerating out of a corner and using the steering and throttle inputs to exit quickly. He loves it. He also realises you don't have to be going at break neck speeds to have fun. A good old manual gearbox is just plain fun.

And for the road nannies, my son's race karts and have a very good idea of speed and reading the 'ahead' road conditions. So please no ' should you be teaching your kids to drive fast' speeches. If more people taught their kids to drive fast properly there might'nt be as many useless deaths.

[southernstar]

bar10dah, I agree that I would rather fly with my family in a modern aircraft - but that is hardly the point. In that case, I and my family are passengers; my concerns about the new technology are purely from the perspective of driving enjoyment and the trend towards making new Porsches dummy-proof. Although I must admit, that as we progress towards auto-pilot technology, we will likely all become nothing much more than passengers!

It seems that even if the rarefied world of Formula 1 there are some who share my opinions. As you may recall. several years ago the cars had traction control - something which made effective starts (or effective exits from corners) much easier. Regardless of driver skill, the best car then became the fastest to the first turn and the best at accelerating out of turns. Formula one has now dropped this and the result is that driver skill has once again been placed at a premium. Watch the start to a number of grand prix and it will become apparent that a driver such as Fernando Alonso is generally able to pass one or more cars into the first turn - not because his car is faster or has a better program for traction control, but because he is able to maximize acceleration and avoid tire spin. Indeed, I believe that yesterday's Canadian Grand Prix was the first race this season in which he did not gain positioins (albeit he did not lose any either). Tire wear is also a huge factor this year in Formula 1 and it requires drivers who have the skill to run a fine line between being fast, and not overheating the tires through wide slip angles or wheel spin out of corners.

PDK and modern traction control (and Vector technology) do make for a faster car that is also easier to drive. And while I know that you can't stop progress, I for one think that it is beginning to turn sports cars into something other than 'driver's' cars.

Brad

[blue2000s]

I'm surprised we haven't seen a transmission with an optional clutch pedal yet. The third pedal is there but the driver can opt to let the car shift if desired. They've already put a manual version of the PDK transmission in the 991, how much of a leap could it be to add a mechanical interface to the computer control? I still wouldn't like the loss of feel, but considering the throttle and steering have already gone that way, why not?