Not impressed so far, Porsche! - Page 2 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Rail26 · 08-19-2005, 03:55 PM

Seems like we all share the same:

Whistling side mirror
Rattling Windstop
Stereo problem

446 miles to go on the break-in. My trip to Santa Fe should take care of that!

gschiener · 08-19-2005, 06:04 PM

I've now clocked 3,500 miles on my 987... It's been nothing but sheer delight... only had the "stop" radio message appear once... have added h&r lowering springs, BMC air filter... Valentine One detector... I had no complaints with my 986 interior, but I do find the new interior styling a bit more upscale...

Mark986 · 08-19-2005, 08:45 PM

OK guys and gals her comes the big rant!

I have to agree with DeliriousGA regarding the 987 interior. I always thought that the 986 was supposed to be an homage to the speedsters of the past, namely the 550.

The little roadster that literally saved Porsche has been "refined" and homogenized into a car that for me has lost a little of its' edge. In the same way that Porsche decided to enter the SUV arena just because they couldn't give that market segment to BMW and the like, they have tried to make the Boxster more palatable to the everyman and everywoman to garner a few more sales (like they need it!). I will always appreciate a Porsche as a great driver's car, but IMHO the dash now looks like it belongs in a 1965 Ford Fairlane. It's just straight and flat with the exception of that ridiculous timer, that strikes me as more of an affectation than an integral part of a true sports car. I agree that the materials, fit and finish have improved, but the styling is dull! Just compare each panel of the interior to see what emotion it illicits from you. I really think the 986 evokes the feeling of a true roadster. These cars were not meant to be "plush", hell maybe not even comfortable!
Please don't think for one minute that I hate the 987, I'm just a tad disappointed in the direction Porsche has taken. I fell in love with the Boxster the first time I got behind the wheel and now I look at the details on the 987 (the headlights, the wheels, the taillights, the side intakes) and it leaves me kinda underwhelmed. Even though all the body panels are new, it stills looks like a 986.... but just not better. For example, I'm looking at the side intakes on the Caymen and they have a subtle curve that adds panache and flows into the lines of the rear quarter panel. The 987 vents look like they were designed with a straigtedge and just tacked on so they would be different from the "old" model. It feels like the bean counters are in control of the company and the next new model after the Caymen will be a reincarnation of the 924.

Don't flame me too hard guys, I didn't realize how I really felt about the direction Porsche was taking until I started writing this. I could go on for pages, but you get the idea. I'm going to go take my medicine now and I'll feel better in the morning. Long live the 986.

Rail26 · 08-20-2005, 05:42 AM

Mark, don't completely agree, but love the passion! Unfortunately, for a company to be viable and survive todays market they have to appeal to the largest group possible. IMHO, I think Porsche has been able to keep the Porsche panache, yet ensure its future success with its current models. Such luxury cars like Lambo, Ferrari and Aston Martin are way out my reach. Their "boutique" hand built cars will never be in my reach. Porsche has introduced a model that I have been able to afford. It will be a while before I can purchase a 911. I do agree that Porsche has added a little more "water to the scotch", but now we can all have a taste yet we still attain that exclusivity that we all want.

Dig the passion though brother. We are all Porsche-files in our own way.

Brucelee · 08-20-2005, 05:44 AM

All of this is totally subjective, but there are many things that I like about the 987.

Looks wise however, they have taken some backsteps in my opinion.

Personally, I hate the new standard wheels and I don't like the side vents either.

I really HATE no having a dipstick. Soon, they will put a lock on the damn oil pan so that we can wrench anything!

But on balance, the changes to the driveline seem solid and well thought out.

I am partial to the 03 Box S as pretty much where the 986 was "completed" in my mind.

SoCal · 08-20-2005, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

SD987:

I am interested in learning more about proper clutch use, upshifting and downshifting to maximize performance and minimize clutch and engine wear. Could you start a new thread and discuss this? I'm all ears (or eyes as it were).

I'd like to see that info too. I think I know how to down-shift to help slow the car without over revving, but I don't know what I don't know.

eslai · 08-22-2005, 04:33 PM

Update: I took the car to the dealership today. The tech tells me that he thinks that the operating sleeve just isn't holding.

FYI, he's talking about the ring gear that slides back and forth between two gears to actually engage either one of them. On the porsche there's an operating sleeve between first and second that slides back and forth. It isn't holding on second is what he thinks.

But, no parts are available for the 987 tranny yet. I need a new tranny.

Here's the kicker though. They pulled some codes from my car. In the 986 there were apparently two levels of warnings. One if you were just bouncing off the rev limiter and another level if you over-revved the engine by downshifting wrong.

My service advisor told me that the latter of those two codes puts you somewhat at the mercy of Porsche, as far as warranty claims go.

The 987 has FIVE levels of these flags (i have no idea what the real terminology is) and my service advisor doesn't know how to read them. He says that i have warnings in the first three ranges.

Well, I know I've never over-revved the engine. I've bounced off the rev-limiter in first, naturally--it's a really short gear, but I've never over-revved. The closest I've come to that are a couple of times when i shifted into the wrong gear and started to let out the clutch, heard the motor leap but put the clutch back in before it ever got near redline.

I'll be very disappointed if they decide not to warrant this transmission based on any of these codes. My service advisor is going to call his rep tomorrow and find out what's up. I've had plenty of other cars where I've treated the transmission either the same or worse (back in my learner's permit days

) and I've never had any problems. I really hope they don't end up completely eroding my belief in Porsche durability and warranty coverage. My Mitsubishi drivetrain has proven more reliable than my Porsche--that's plain embarrassing!

I really don't see how they would reasonably deny me though. I have a lot of faith that it won't come to that.

And the 987 interior does bring the car more inline with what other luxury brands are doing with their interiors. I don't see how this could diminish the driving experience of the car at all, or be a bad thing for sales and overall driver satisfaction. All subjective of course, and I do also appreciate the passion that most of you have. We all have our own biases on all of this though and honestly, i would expect nothing less than for most of us to prefer what we have.

eslai · 08-29-2005, 01:29 PM

Final update:

I got the car back today with a new transmission. My service rep showed me the warning counts and there were a lot of times that I hit the rev limiter, which is no big deal, but then as far as over revs go, they had 225 hits in the "level two" warning and three hits in the "level three" area. i forget how high level two is, but level three was "up to 7900 RPMS". So apparently I'd spent three engine rev cycles in dangerously-high RPM ranges and a good 225 cycles in the rather-high range.

There's also levels four five and six, which I didn't register on.

Now, to me, those don't seem like outrageous revs or counts, nor do they seem hard to avoid, as the only time I ever did a "whoopsie" shift was when i was still figuring out the car and obviously I caught it pretty fast.

However, I was warned that they could void the engine adn drivetrain warranty if they saw that sort of activity increase.

A little annoying, and I'm not certain that I can see how that'd hold up in court, but since I dont' plan on having to worry about it, no problem. I'll fight that battle IF I have to.

I'm left in a certain conundrum though. I don't think I beat on the car, Porsche thinks I've been beating on the car. I think the car had/has a glass tranny, Porsche doesn't. With that weakened trust that I now have in the car, will I still be able to enjoy it as I have?

We'll see.

KRZTACO · 08-29-2005, 01:40 PM

So Basically you can't beat the motor or tranny up like a B16 motor with constant redlining and 3500 RPM launches on a daily basis for 180,000 miles with no problems.

How could the tech guy even say..........."Your driving habits may void the warranty." Well, probably because your not a 60 year old dude in retirement that drives the car 40 miles a week!

They make you feel like you've driven the car in Porsche Cup races for the season. EVEN IF YOU DID, and the motor or tranny broke, they should fix it under warranty.

KRZ :troll:

eslai · 08-29-2005, 02:01 PM

Basically I came out of there thinking, "Geez, Mitsubishi makes beefier transmissions than Porsche!?"

I've had the car for five thousand miles. It only takes one bad episode to wreck a part, sure, but uh, well... I didn't do anything "bad". The problem got progressively worse too, so if they want to tell me that one episode of high revs caused progressive failure over a part for the next four thousand miles.... I don't know.

SD987 · 08-29-2005, 07:30 PM

Just out of curiousity did the dealer "bill" show a figure on how much the tranny replacement would have been if not covered under warranty? or did you get an indication from talking to anyone?

eslai · 08-29-2005, 09:47 PM

Hmm.. that would have been interesting... I'll take a look at the paperwork tomorrow but I doubt it has any sort of figure on it.

Porsche North America was a little reluctant to release this tranny to my dealer too since there's so few of them in the US at this time. But sheesh, what else are you going to need a tranny for besides warranty work?

The more I thought about it and the more I drove the car today, the more I couldn't see any way that I could have caused the damage.

Ah well.

eslai · 08-30-2005, 12:59 PM

Okay, I'm looking at the paperwork and yeah, no prices listed, sorry.

xavier405 · 09-02-2005, 07:17 AM

Man, sorry to read about this entire episode! I think the best thing youve got going for you is your relationship with the dealer. That service center is either gonig to bail you out or shoot you down. As much as you hate going there, I suggest you check in there every few weeks and ask them to check the engine codes. Ask them for advice. Keep them engaged. You will be 1) educating yourself, 2) educating them, 3) making friends, and 4) due diligence in case you need to defend yourself in court!

Are you sure you weren't just showing off for that cute girl in the right seat?!

todd1ada · 09-02-2005, 10:05 AM

[QUOTE=Mark986]OK guys and gals her comes the big rant!

I have to agree with DeliriousGA regarding the 987 interior. I always thought that the 986 was supposed to be an homage to the speedsters of the past, namely the 550.

The little roadster that literally saved Porsche has been "refined" and homogenized into a car that for me has lost a little of its' edge. In the same way that Porsche decided to enter the SUV arena just because they couldn't give that market segment to BMW and the like, they have tried to make the Boxster more palatable to the everyman and everywoman to garner a few more sales (like they need it!). I will always appreciate a Porsche as a great driver's car, but IMHO the dash now looks like it belongs in a 1965 Ford Fairlane. It's just straight and flat with the exception of that ridiculous timer, that strikes me as more of an affectation than an integral part of a true sports car. I agree that the materials, fit and finish have improved, but the styling is dull! Just compare each panel of the interior to see what emotion it illicits from you. I really think the 986 evokes the feeling of a true roadster. These cars were not meant to be "plush", hell maybe not even comfortable!
Please don't think for one minute that I hate the 987, I'm just a tad disappointed in the direction Porsche has taken. I fell in love with the Boxster the first time I got behind the wheel and now I look at the details on the 987 (the headlights, the wheels, the taillights, the side intakes) and it leaves me kinda underwhelmed. Even though all the body panels are new, it stills looks like a 986.... but just not better. For example, I'm looking at the side intakes on the Caymen and they have a subtle curve that adds panache and flows into the lines of the rear quarter panel. The 987 vents look like they were designed with a straigtedge and just tacked on so they would be different from the "old" model. It feels like the bean counters are in control of the company and the next new model after the Caymen will be a reincarnation of the 924.

Don't flame me too hard guys, I didn't realize how I really felt about the direction Porsche was taking until I started writing this. I could go on for pages, but you get the idea. I'm going to go take my medicine now and I'll feel better in the morning. Long live the 986.[/QUOTE}

Mark986-- Couldn't agree with you more. The interior of the 986, to me, looks very european and sporty, whereas the 987 looks more standard Japanese-style a la Lexus, which I don't really like. Porsche should have simply upgrade the down-market plastics used in the 986 cockpit and it would have been perfect.

longislander1 · 09-02-2005, 02:36 PM

The problem with the 986 interior is that Porsche skimped on the materials. (Apologies to those of you who own one. However, I've seen a lot of people do some nice mods to really upgrade them.) Take a look at the seat bolsters on an older car and see how the foam has shifted. We all know about peeling problems with the armrests. And I just never understood all the black plastic in a car that price.

Three things kept me away from the Boxster for a number of years -- interior, headlights and the fact that it didn't perform any better (and sometimes worse) than my 968. The 987S cures all of those things and that's why I bought one.

Brucelee · 09-02-2005, 02:43 PM

I love those 968s. I am still looking for a pristine coupe.

eslai · 09-02-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longislander1

And I just never understood all the black plastic in a car that price.

Yeah, i think that's just it. I don't think the interior's shape looked bad, but everything looked and felt too cheap for a $50,000 car. Now in the 987 it looks rather "audi-fied" with is fine by me.

I'm really quite confused by all the people in here that prefer the 986 look over the 987. I thought the changes would all be welcomed and in fact, most of the reviews mention the changes as being a good thing. Once again though, different strokes for different folks.

longislander1 · 09-04-2005, 06:47 AM

I think people are referring to the curves of the 986 interior, which can be great if they're tastefully done and the materials are of high quality. As far as the 987 interior, I do think that the standard wheel feels cheap and unworthy of a car in this price range. I've said before that my Mazda Tribute wheel feels better. Anyone ordering a 987 would be well-advised to go with the thicker sport wheel.

eslai · 09-04-2005, 10:24 AM

YEah, I'm a bit bummed about that--I didn't order the sport wheel because I didn't even know it existed--it's listed on the LEATHER options page of the car configurator along with the leather version of the sport wheel, and I didn't bother to look there!

It's not even expensive and had I known about it I would've ordered it. The dealer didn't make mention of it because I went in there with my list all sorted out... OR SO I THOUGHT.