119k Mile Boxster S purchase
 

I used to have a 99 Boxster, bought at 54k miles and sold at 80k, and missing it dearly. I've read and (hopefully) understand what I'm getting with a high mileage Boxster. I don't need a car, often, so this would be a weekend getaway vehicle.

Looking at a 2002 Boxster S with 119k miles.... oil changed every 14k ( :( ), full leather, heated seats, xenon, etc.
Car needs:
New brakes (owner says rear, but I presume all)
Coolant reservoir
Blinker stalk replacement
Paint cracking on front bumper

Owner was quite tricky to speak with as he is sick, so I wasn't able to grill him completely. Chances are it's going to need tires and a once over, but one thing that stood out to me was that he said it's never had a clutch changed; my Boxster with 80k had never had a clutch change (none of my cars have), but 119k seems like a long time to go.

My questions are-
What''s the longest you have gone without replacing the clutch?

At $5,500-$6,000, please tell me this is a good idea. ;)

You can't really judge a clutch based on mileage. Sit cruising on a highway / motorway and you can empty the tank without wearing the clutch at all. Spend all you time in traffic with lots of steep gradients and you'll hose the clutch very quickly.

I've heard of 986 clutches wearing in 40k miles, other lasting over 200k miles.

Easiest way to check is weight, but even then, it's not conclusive. My clutch has been heavy for over 20k miles but hasn't started slipping yet.

That's a pretty small list even if you need a new clutch. Get the PPI and see what you got. Remember most Boxsters are very reliable and if this guy maintained it you could be driving 2002 'S' for NOTHING!
Do you wrench at all? Where is the car, I might be interested, I would love to track it. My car had the oil changed ever 10 to 15k miles by the previous owner and I got a gem, not issues at all. Does the guy have service records?
Good luck!

$6,000 for a '02 S ?!? That's a hellva deal! Long as you have $3,000+ laying around for repairs I think you'll do fine, and I'd set aside another $400/mo for future repairs since it sounds like this car was rode hard (paint cracking? coolant reservoir?)

I paid more for my 98 2.5 with 99k! But then it was a dealer, and it's in *perfect* condition, with copies of every maintenance receipt. Even the paint and leather is perfect! And Porsches are rather rare in the midwest, I *might* see one once a month.

6k is the price for one with a blown engine.....the S holds its value really well, around here that car would be an easy 12k

my clutch was replaced at 60k miles

Kelly Blue Book is right around $11K. Even with high mileage the S models keep their value fairly well.

Be sure to get a PPI so you know what you're getting into and that there aren't any other repairs needed.

The clutch in my car was replaced at 92,000 miles. Your mileage may vary.

I'd say this car a good idea if you have some money in reserve for the initial ($2-3,000) and on-going repairs and maintenance.

Over 100K it needs a new clutch, I don't care if an Andretti has been rowing it, the clutch needs replacing, count on it.

I did my last oil change at 5K (instead of 6.2K miles which is 10k in km) and the oil was so dark that I'm convinced to keep doing oil change at 5K now.

I'd suggest you do some oil analysis on it if you decide to pick it up.

I did my oil with new filters at 2,500 and made a collar of strong magnets from a dollar store dog collar and fitted it on the oil housing. Result? dead engine 32,000. In general I still believe in frequent oil changes but the m96 seems to be like a pull on a slot machine, how many miles are in her? Only the oddsmakers and fate can say. One of my friends said it blew because I drove it on occasion to red line, yet in these blogs there are people who have tracked their cars and never had a problem..Besides I drove all my sports cars over 30 years to redline on occasion, only one engine blew.vegas baby, it's like vegas.

32k? let me guess, stored all winter?
low mileage, older boxsters seem more likely for engine failure, higher mileage boxsters seem to have a LOWER failure rate (still failures but at a lower rate)
just my observation

I would say that @119k miles it is probably a healthy one, throw a new clutch and IMS in there when you get it and drive the wheels off it

For what it's worth, I recently purchased a 2000 2.7 for $7,500 with 115,000 miles on it and the original clutch. The clutch is a little scratchy when taking off from first at low RPMs, 1200 or less, but if I launch at over 2000, the clutch is perfectly smooth. I'm going to wait until the clutch starts to fail before I replace it, and the IMSB. It could be tomorrow, or hopefully in five years.

The high miles on the car were definitely not a concern for me. I love the car and I haven't looked back.

But as others have said, be sure to get a thorough prepurchase inspection.

On this subject, trying to eek every shift from a clutch disc is like waiting on a needed root canal, nothing but more pain will come. If you start to push it to the wear limit you can damage the flywheel which happens to be more than five bucks. Worse yet, if the synchros get damaged now you have real money coming out of pocket. Change the clutch when it needs one, it's the cheapest way to add longevity, dependability and enjoyable performance to an older manual gearbox.

+1 on the clutch, repair it before it fails

Let me clarify. I'm not going to wait until it completely fails, but until I notice the first signs of slipping or get a very stiff pedal.

As other posters have told you, get a pre-purchase inspection so you know what you're about to wade into, even with that amazingly low price.

The cheapest Porsche you buy may quickly turn into the most expensive car you've owned to date. Trust me on this.

Now to clutches... if a clutch is treated properly, it can last a very long time. Well over a hundred thousand miles, especially if the owner did a lot of highway driving, didn't downshift hard to enable engine braking, and didn't depress the clutch unless a gear was actively being changed. So the question, "how long does a clutch last" has a LOT to do with how often it's used and can't be easily answered.

The way to look at this car is to figure out its wholesale value at auction, deduct this sale price, and you'll have the amount you should be willing to drop into it that first year to make it dependable and safe. If that amount is greater than the wholesale auction price, you're putting more into the car than it's worth...

Which is what I've done with my car year after year. Now I've got 3x the car's value in repairs and mods.

:troll:

If I were you, I'd pass on this one and find a well-cared for 03 S, which has two important things: a glove box and a glass rear window in the top. If you've not owned a Boxster before, you've no idea how important these things are to have. Plus, the car will have lower mileage on it and records and well, I can assure you that you won't regret waiting, buying a younger model with fewer miles on it, etc.

I'm surprised people care so much about the glove box. For my money, it's a thoroughly trivial item. I don't miss it for a moment. All the glove boxes in my cars have ever served as is garbage receptacles. Move over, there's lockable bin in the arm rest, two big pockets in the door and lots of space in the zip thing behind the head rests (assuming you don't have Bose). It's a total non issue if you ask me.

The glass window does offer tangible benefits, but it too doesn't come close to being enough to push me in the direction of a facelift car.

Thanks for all the responses. One thing that prevented me from fully enjoying my '99 Boxster was the lingering fear of engine failure. My line of thought on this car is that at this price, even if the IMS fails, the parts are still worth more than I paid for it! I might do an IMS upgrade, but if the clutch doesn't need replacing until 150k, an IMS upgrade might not even be worth it.

For me, a glovebox is just an excuse to have things I don't need in a car. I'd like a glass window, but the plastic window on my 99 split and I wasn't bothered enough to fix that for at least a year... no rain came through, and I didn't really care how it looked. Hell, I didn't even need a cupholder in that car.

I'm hoping to go check out the car tomorrow, and looking for somewhere to get a Saturday PPI... main problem is, as it's so hard to speak to the owner, I can't confirm anything until tomorrow morning. Oh well, I bought the last one without a PPI and that worked out fine, right? :matchup:

Thanks again for all your clutch responses, I'll let you know what I discover!

+1 I've never missed the glovebox either. Or cupholders.

mookarma - good luck with the car tomorrow. Let us know what you find and what you decide.

Will do! If it's not for me, I'll pass on the details to others that have expressed interest :)

I look forward to your report! Seems like a screaming deal unless it is a totally neglected POS.

Pothole, if you never plan to sell your Boxster or don't care about resale value or the length of time the car may sit without being sold, then a glass window, a glovebox, and numerous other enhancements made to the 03 and 04 S models won't be important. Nor will the reliability increases that came with every revision Porsche made to the 986.

However, many savvy shoppers will choose one of these cars over an older model without them. And their preferences become more important than yours when you want your car sold sooner than later.

I'd say for that price, if you like it buy it. We purchased our first Boxster, a '98, with 107K on it. Still on original clutch. Sold it 2 years later at 133K still on original clutch and working quit well.

Sorry, I can't agree the 986/996 or indeed 987/997 got more reliable over time, with the possible exception of the latest DFI and 2.9-litre engines. The 987 / 997 seems to suffer particularly badly with bore scoring, for instance. I'd also argue that the remaining early 2.5s, the ones that were made before the porous block problems kicked in, might be among the more reliable 986s.

The bottom line is that the M96/97 engine line is problematical and that applies to all the iterations.

Of course, I agree that things like glass windows and glove boxes matter to mass market buyers, which is most people. But most people don't want 15-year Porsche and with each and every further passing year, these cars move further from the mass market and towards the specialist and classic markets. In those markets, consumerist trivia like glove boxes matters very little.

Personally, I'm not aware of anything that came with the later cars that's particularly desirable to an enthusiast owner. I also happen to think the facelift design changes look cheap and fussy. I'd take an original 2.5/2.7/3.2 complete with ambers all round over any facelift car. And I'd have no reason to think it was going to be less reliable.

for people ********************ing about the glove compartments...does nobody have the slidie-open storage compartment between the seats on the back panel? that is where the important papers go in my car..........I have factory cupholders on my 02......they are worthless lol,,
I have a glass window too on my Robbins top

Pothole, I was not referring to motor enhancements as much as revisions to parts that older cars may not have had replaced by a PO (coolant overflow tank, push rods on the top mechanism, top cables, etc.). These numerous little things breaking on old boxsters like ours were very frustrating for me and potential buyers want a car that's dependable in these non-drivetrain areas.

I've traded more than one older German car because the bits and pieces were always breaking due to poor quality.

ummm,..........sorry about that........ :) I saw this on CL, I pick it up weds. ;)
Does need turnsignal stalk, coolant res, and rear brake pads. The paint is not cracked, it is the clear bra someone stuck on there that is cracked and should come off pretty easy. All service has been performed by Porsche. Clutch felt really good, and does not need service as of now, give me a couple of weeks then we will see. :eek: Love the heated seats :D Even the rear window plastic is clear.
feelyx

Makes me laugh to see you write that. My dad had an Audi 4000 in 1986. They were using aluminum terminals in their wiring in those years. After about 5 years, pretty much everything electrical in the car decided to die.

Haha was just coming on here to say that some lucky punk bought it before me... Seems like feelyx was that guy! Congrats! Sort of. ;) my dog was skunked today, called the guy and told him I'd be out tomorrow and he'd sold it. Best of luck with it, feelyx. Sort of ;)

Mookarma, It was a fantastic deal couldn't pass it up.... had to stop him from talking me down any farther....

well, if you decide it's not the one for you, let me know ;)

how much did you pay if you dont mind me asking?

Let's see if I'd a payed $2,000 for my 2000 S with 60K miles two years ago, I would have ended up paying $14K for it today. Granted some of these things were normal and probably shouldn't count like tires but this car can get expensive quickly. The funny thing is that a PPI would not have caught most of the repairs I had to make. The AOS, coolant tank, MAF, starter, alternator, control arms, throttle body, they all went suddenly, and strangely at about the same time. I'm not sure how they check the shocks for instance in a PPI but when I had the car up on the lift a very experienced Porsche mechanic I use did a quick inspection and commented how good the shocks seemed being 10 years old. It wasn't until the shocks were out that we saw that they either failed quickly thereafter or you just can't really tell while their on the car because about six months later them front shocks were fried when they came off. I ended up spending about $5K last year and about $6K this year not including spending a bit more on an upgrade or two in the exhaust department. But bear mind this is a winter-driven Porsche which IMHO means a better maintained engine (year round driving) but the rest of the car takes a beating. I'm going to limit my average distances this winter. We had a hellish winter last year and I probably should not have been more conservative.

p.s.
I would not wait until the clutch goes to upgrade the IMS. I've said this before but I think its penny wise pound foolish to pass up on the oppourtunity to address a potentially catastrophic weak point just to save a few hundred bucks on a delayed clutch job. I would spend the $1600 for the clutch/LN IMS before I even drove it home.

Perfectlap,
I already drove the **** out of it in the mountains here, if the ims was failing I'm sure it would still be scattered off the hill side. I am not really sure what I'm going to do with this one, yet. I was thinking of putting the 6spd w/LSD in my '98 with the 2.5, but don't know if it will improve its performance or not.

At the price I got it, I could almost do anything with it, and I may even part it out. The sale of the 3.2 and Brembo brakes should cover the cost of the car.
Even repairing everything, I would still be way ahead. It may even become a dedicated track car. I just don't know yet.

As a side note I'm checking with Neillo Porsche here if they did infact put a replacement engine in at 8k mi. Just waiting to here on that.

Check YouTube. There's at least one IMS failure of car that was regularly tracked (aka abused). It goes without warning. A little wobbly in that bearing that you can't feel or sense, unless they invent medical MRI's for car engines, and poof....all gone.
The beauty of upgrading the IMS and replacing the clutch is that you actually get to break in a new clutch. It's not like doing something preventative that has no utility other than peace of mind. You get a new clutch that can typically last you up to 100K miles. And doing it sooner means less abuse on the flywheel which is $600 OEM. I wouldn't even think twice if I didn't have full service records with a good sense of how frequently the car was driven. My belief is that a car with 1- at least two oil changes a year, 2- non-Mobil 1 oil, 3-driven on an at least weekly basis, 4-year round, 5-in a sunny climate is the best Boxster history.
Add points for each.

Thats all true, but if this is a replacement engine, you can't replace the ims as the bearing is bigger than the opening and can't be pulled out. I should know sometime this week if indeed it has a replacement in it. If it doesn't have a replacement, then this bearing goes in, S6204-2RS Bearing 20x47x14 Si3N4 Ceramic Stainless Steel Sealed Nylon ABEC-7 Ball Bearings pronto. As for the clutch, If its a replacement engine then I will drive it till is toast, then replace it. If that is 10,000 or less mi. then so be it, I will take a day and replace it. Other than that it gets replaced with the bearing. All services were done by Porsche and they use mobil 1. I'm leaning right now to make this a street legal track car.

Hang on.

You can use a $70 off-the-shelf bearing?

Pothole, Your 97 probably has a double row bearing.... I don't have a ceramic number for that one.. yet. When I pull the one out of my 98 I will find one. For you to use the single row you will need to use Wayne's kit or build one of your own. The ceramic bearing has a 16,000 rpm limit, where as steel only has a 11,000 rpm limit, so realistly ceramic should last over twice as long as you don't rev over 8k. Just repack the bearing with quality grease, I perfer to leave the seals on when installed.

The double row in my 98 will be replaced with a single row, as the double rows are not as strong as the single row, because they can't load the bearing with enough balls.... :)