ouch...
 

according to consumer reports recent report, "Porsche plunged to second worst brand overall from its ranking last year as second-best."

Consumer reports are based on limited surveys and questionnaires. To me, they're worth the paper they're printed on..... barely.

C.U.'s surveys are limited to subscribers, probably the largest base of informed consumers available.

My childhood friend and dentist has an 09 Boxster and a new Cayenne. He says the cayenne is riddled with problems and reports it to be a POS. I have no problem believing Porsche quality has dipped and an even easier time believing their response to any pushback is screw you; try calling Atlanta sometime if you don't agree. My 944 was built far better than the Boxster, not even a contest, same with the air cooled 911, the doors close like a safe, not with a window rattle as in the Boxster.

I wonder what year ranges it covers? If it includes the cars with an IMS the likely growing awareness of the design weakness may account for that. However, a friend of mine has an 09 Boxster. The engine is great but the electrical constantly drains the battery in a few days.

Chris

I was wondering whether they have to absorb VW's list but what I read was specific to the SUV line pulling down their numbers. I'd still like a response from them, it's hard to contemplate parting with another 75,000 at what feels like an eff you if you lose casino.

I disagree with the 944...I put almost 100k miles on mine, I had alot of problems, oil cooler seals, motor mounts, more oil leaks that I care to remember, the 30k timing/balance shaft belt fiasco, every door handle broke like 5 times each, seats that disintegrated, speedo cable that snapped 3 times, etc.....

it was not a BAD car, I enjoyed the hell out of it, BUT I feel my Boxster S is on a whole nother level.

fivepoints, The engine in the 944 was a PIA, I was specifically commenting on the click bang door closure, many Boxsters including mine seem to have an after rattle of the window after closure, not very Porsche like when contrasted against my brother's 911 or a 944 door. Even taking convertible rigidity into effect, close the door on an old 911 cabriolet and judge for yourself the effects of cost pressures. PS An engineering student could have predicted calamity with an IMS bearing in an engine designed to spin past 5000 rpm. Porsche was so asleep on this one they didn't even make the bearing servicable, just how many miles were they planning on for their throw away, get us back in the game car?

You have that window rattle on closing the door too, eh? I have it, only on the passenger side, and only when the window is fully down. Anyone know the fix for this? I took a look in there once but didn't see anything obviously broken or wrong. (sorry for the hijack!)

I don't know your friend (obviously) but many/most complaints I hear like this (from all brands) is from people who haven't, or don't, take their vehicles to the dealership for service. I'll continue to stand by my proven philosophy that a vehicle that is properly maintained (from original owner and beyond), and that is taken to a factory authorized repair facility (that knows that vehicle/brand) won't have many of the niggling issues posed in forums as "problems" or "issues" with their cars. It's called preventative maintenance for a reason. Take it to a dealership and have it adjusted or repaired to eliminate the rattle or electrical drain. I would not drive a vehicle, especially a Porsche, that had any issues especially annoying rattles. If I had a vehicle, of any type, with which a live/dead short couldn't be found, I would install a Cole-Hersee (or similar) Automatic Low Voltage Disconnect Switch to disengage the battery while not being driven. Or keep it on a trickle charger.

Always take stats with a grain of salt.

Porsche's customer base is also much smaller than say, Toyota, so you can expect more extreme fluctuations in satisfaction, and problems to take a bigger hit on quality standings.

The Cayenne is a dolled-up VW Touareg...expect typical VW issues.

And in my rather outspoken (at the moment) opinion, every car maker's quality has gone to crap in the last 15 years. Cost cutting and only designing something to the point of functioning is what everyone is doing these days, save the high 6 and 7 figure price tag boutique manufacturers (and even then). We all know that car making has turned into designing parts to have a shorter lifespan for more frequent replacements, and lately it's gone a step further in making components as assemblies. So you can't just buy that one switch, you have to buy the whole cluster that's been built as one replaceable unit. I understand it from a business standpoint, but as a screwed consumer, it's not pleasing.

So I'm not saying Porsche is a saint in any of this. On the contrary, they took their cost-cutting advice from Toyota and ran with it, and it's only going to get worse with VW pulling the strings. The prestige of the name is still there, but when you're basically looking at a rebadged VW SUV, you get what you pay for, AND you have to add a $30,000.00 premium on top for sheetmetal and badges.

Also keep in mind that in an effort to save weight, things aren't going to sound as solid because they're not. It doesn't give you that feeling of quality like a solid door close without window rattles and tinny sounds, but if it were built like an old 911 and stuffed with airbags, I think the Boxster would easily weight at least another 500lbs, and no one wants that.

denversteve, I politely say to that Beee ESSSS! My car was coddled and some people who went to the dealer and received new engines had the second engines blow up too. Simply stated there isn't one scheduled maintenance that was skipped on my crippled car. Furthermore, when I took my 944 to the dealer they returned it leaking oil and then charged full for the second repair. There is ZERO truth that a car maintained well by a competent indy mechanic is the reason a Boxster will fail. I don't agree that the cheapness was all for weight savings either, the interior in the 98 is really quite cheesy considering cost and a 944 is likely lighter than a Boxster at 2800/ 2900 pounds.
The dentist owns an island, he goes to the dealer for the really pretty stamp collections and both are under Porsche warranty AND when your name begins with doctor Porsche dealers deliver a different style of service.

This tells you how much these surveys are worth in the first place.

I'll get another one, it will be under warranty and driven far harder than my broken cream puff.

Definitely wasn't saying that that was the only reason or way in which Porsche cheaped out on this car, just one of many. In terms of safety, it's just inevitable that a car's going to get heavier to get safer, so you'll need to compensate elsewhere or just get bloated. But in terms of quality, yes, the interior's definitely lacking for something that was $40,000 bare bones minimum when new 15 years ago and most likely going for easily $10,000 more than that typically.

Hell, they gave it a vinyl window for the first 7 years! And I didn't even know the car could come without door speakers until recently! These are things I expect to be done as cost cutting measures on a Yaris.

But in any case, it could definitely be worse, and it's not all bad. I agree with blue200s, something's kinda wrong with your system more than the car company when you rank a company up high one year and down low the very next.

My last word is this, it was indy mechanics that developed a fix and a special puller for the double row bearings..

Re: 944 vs Boxster Quality
 

The 944 has the fiasco with having to replace the timing belt regularly or else the car blows up. The Boxster "improvement" is that now you have to replace the IMS bearing or else IT blows up.

The IMS bearing issue is a huge black eye for Porsche.

Cheers,
Ron
'03 986

I had an '86 944 that was beautiful, never any issues. 2 914's (still have one of them) that is an older car, so hard to compare the two: air-cooled vs water is a big difference.
I have the window rattle too (window down, both sides rattle). The box, even though it's 11 years old has been kinda problematic (minor stuff like trim and things), but there's some stuff that has broken that i've said to myself "really?? this is a porsche!" (plastic convertible top, console lid hinge, ignition switch). Maybe I just expected more from a car with a $50k sticker price!

nah, I dont expect much from 50k cars, our Saab 9-3 SE convertible was around 46k in 2001 and the top on that shreds a microswitch every 6 months, a vert top cover u-joint about once every other year, eats CV axles for breakfast, the pixels on the central display have been MIA for about 3 years now, the ignition cassettes will randomly fail leaving you stranded, sludge will kill the motors instantly if you go over 3.5k for an oil change (10k was the recommendation from the factory) but on the positive note the thermostat stuck open on my drive to work this morning....112k miles on the original thermostat is pretty good in my book:dance:

the boxster has 1 major engine issue that shows up in a select amount of cars (and even the aftermarket companies say frequent oil changes and oil type can reduce this risk) the convertible top is a very simple design compared to alot of them and more accessible to the mechanicals of it too...I LOVE my boxster.

My BMW X3 has been relatively trouble free though, it has 67k miles on it, I have the CCV fail at 62k (same thing as the Porsche AOS) and the intake boot developed a rip at about 60k miles, besides that its been happy motoring there.....but it is SLOW

Well I find the tone of this a little condescending but that may be just because it is hard to translate it into text. Of course he has brought it to the dealer...multiple times and they have never been able to eliminate it. Apparently word is 2009's are notorious for electrical issues.

Chris

Nothing condescending about my post - not taken out of context I exclude your friend in my first sentence.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Ah no worries then. Really thought I'd be pretty pissed with Porsche if my car couldn't go a week without needing to be on a charger.

But back to the main topic I wonder what the SUV complaints are all about? I remember the DFI was causing a lot of issues with excessive oil deposit buildups on the valves.

Chris

doesn't this just kind of prove the point?
"my car's battery is constantly being drained while it's not running."
"well, put it on a charger or unplug the battery."

as an aside, it does appear the cayenne is what dragged the results down, though not engine issues. the report states that the boxster's positives were not enough to overcome the suv's flaws. remember the boxster was CR's top pick last year.

(and it's not that i put a lot of stock in CR's reports, but it's still a black eye overall. i imagine most people who are planning to buy a porsche have already decided to buy a porsche and do not go pick up a CR to read the survey results.)

+ 1, I did all the maintenance on my 99 Boxster on time and the right way and it suffered from all the common problems that Boxsters are known for, I now own a 2002 Boxster and love it but like all Boxsters I am always working on it. I only paid $9,000.00 for my 2002, It was a great deal, Part of the reason is because of the fact that these cars have so many issues, and please don't tell me all cars do, I also have a 2006 Lotus Elise that I drive and track the hell out of with Zero Problems, all I do is regular maintenance.

The M96 motor that Porsche put in are cars, is a joke and for this reason alone Porsche deserves such a low rating, They deserve it.

Funny thing is....we all still love our Porsches !!

ALL my vehicles have serious engine issues that have popped up on other cars

Boxster-IMS/RMS issues
Saab-severe sludge issues/random loss of all oil pressure going down the highway@70
BMW X3-transfer case tends to explode, front diffs explode, trannys dont last past 60k miles, CCV fail causing oil hydrolock which leads to blown head gaskets or engine failure....etc etc etc

if you dig deep enough into most cars, they will have known issues


hands down the least reliable vehicle I owned was a 2001 Ford Explorer 5.0 awd, just throwing that out there

I've had 3 M96 cars with no engine issues. Just lucky I guess, but I don't believe the IMS failures are as pervasive as the forums indicate. We only hear about the problems here generally speaking.

Every model of 911 had its issues out of the gate. The 993 requires a 10-15k top end rebuild to turn off a CEL. The 2.7s are considered inferior and the SC, now considered to be bullet proof did not come with hydraulic tensioners. That was a fix in 84 that had to be applied to the 2.7s and 3.0s, that's 10 years worth of 911s with hardy doors!

My only point is that Porsche has always been the way they are now with IMS/RMS issues. If you buy new, they usually take care of you even out of warranty on this kind of stuff, but if you buy somewhere else, that car is no longer their problem. It's not unusual for car manufacturers. I think Porsche should hold themselves to a higher standard, but they never have and they have never been very open about failure percentages either, even after redesigning away a known problem. We keep buying them because they are so much fun to drive and we get hooked. It's an addiction that I've had for 30 years.

As for the tops and windows on Boxsters compared to the Targa tops and early 911 Cabs, there is really no comparison, the 986 is far superior in design, comfort, noise, and especially they don't leak!