another dead boxster @#$%! - Page 4 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Jake Raby · 10-20-2010, 01:58 PM

In these pics we get to the point of IMS puller fitting and finally bearing extraction.
Note that we are not using the standard DIY bearing puller, we choose to use the "pro puller".

Jake Raby · 10-20-2010, 02:06 PM

In this series of pics the bearing is extracted, tube cleaned and prepped for the new bearing to be fitted.

Note the blue colored oil pouring from the IMS tube after the bearing extraced.. This dye was introduced ino the oil prior to my test drive after the AOS was replaced.. We used this to prove that the IMS bearing seal was compromised and was allowing oil past it.. The engine oil only had the dye introuced 83 miles before the IMS bearing was extracted.
The seal on this bearing was so bad that the IMS tube became completely filled with blue dyed oil!! This oil released when the IMS bearing was extracted. The oil got past the IMS bearing because the seal was compromised, just as I suspected after I saw the debris in the sump.

This bearing was well on the way to failure, its seal was compoletely compromised and the bearing had gotten stiff.

This is how far we giot yesterday.. Today we finished the insertion and got it all back together and ready for the dyno. We'll dyno it tomorrow and begin the final stages.

ltusler · 10-21-2010, 12:13 PM

Guys just another data point on the Raby quality, I just finished my first full season with the FSI 3.8 fully massaged engine in my track only 996. About 2k track only miles between Brainerd International and Road America this summer. The engine performed flawlessly. No runs, drips, or errors. I just wish the driver was as good. 2 oil changes so far and no metal or sealant goobers to speak of.

Thanks Jake!
Lon

jmatta · 10-21-2010, 12:36 PM

Jake, must the sump plate be removed to spot bearing gasket material or will it show up in the oil filter, as well? I'm going to change my oil in the next week or so (car is ready to be put away for Chicago winter soon) and thought I may be a bit proactive on looking for trouble signs...I'm thinking of having the bearing changed by next spring before driving season, just as a precaution.

Jake Raby · 10-21-2010, 05:19 PM

Lon, nice of you to drop in.. That beast was a challenge to build, but its been pure satisfaction for both of us!

jmatta,
Yes, removing the sump plate is a necessary evil.. The design of the area around the drain plug keeps debris in the sump during an oil service.. Pull that sucker and inspect!

Pat's Boxster is now 100% completed and has even passed the chassis dyno. I'll be test driving it over the weekend to ensure it has no leaks, noises or etc before Pat comes to pick it up on Tuesday!

I'll post some pics Monday.. Tomorrow is a holiday for us here.

Lobo1186 · 10-21-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltusler

Guys just another data point on the Raby quality, I just finished my first full season with the FSI 3.8 fully massaged engine in my track only 996. About 2k track only miles between Brainerd International and Road America this summer. The engine performed flawlessly. No runs, drips, or errors. I just wish the driver was as good. 2 oil changes so far and no metal or sealant goobers to speak of.

Thanks Jake!
Lon

how much power does that bad boy put down?

Jake Raby · 10-22-2010, 02:46 AM

350 at the rear wheels....

jmatta · 10-22-2010, 06:03 AM

"Yes, removing the sump plate is a necessary evil.. The design of the area around the drain plug keeps debris in the sump during an oil service.. Pull that sucker and inspect!"

I feel it's worth the effort, as that's how you found the original poster's bearing was in early failure stage. BTW, your YouTube video on the LN deep sump plate makes the R&R quite simple for those who have not performed this task.

This thread has been quite enlightening and I truly appreciate the time and effort you've put in to educating owners on what troubles may be lurking within.

texomawaves · 10-22-2010, 07:56 AM

After reading this thread, I'm certainly considering replacing my IMS bearing... good insurance and a selling point for my car, although I don't think i'll ever sell it

Thank you Jake for the pics and the education.

Bruce Wayne · 10-22-2010, 11:46 AM

Jake,

just want to drop a comment and thanks. In my area in the UK there is a distinct lack of knowledge of the M96 engine. There are Porsche Indi specialists, but no one with:

a. the technical knowledge and experience.
b. the willingness to share that experience.

If it were economically viable to box up my box and send it to you for work i would in a new york minute.

you expertise, experience and knowledge is very much appreciated on this side of the pond too.

if you ever have interest in starting a UK operation let me know.

cheers.

Jake Raby · 10-22-2010, 05:38 PM

Thanks guys...
The UK is starved for expertise, BUT there are some there doing things similar to us here in the states.. Autofarm and Hartec both.

But our focus is a bit different..

That said, shipping isn't too bad! I have had a Porsche shipped to me from the Netherlands in the past :-)

Jake Raby · 10-26-2010, 06:56 AM

Well, this story has a happy ending.. Pat is on his way to the Flat 6 Compound to pick up his Boxster today..

What looked so bad wasn't.. But we were able to note some imminent failures and take care of those before they cost Pat a complete engine.

Pat was great to work with and he has a nice Boxster..

tnoice · 10-26-2010, 07:19 AM

Amazing story, I always love to hear when you are able to save a motor before it completely dies. Many other techs would simply throw the motor away and smack you with a $20,000 repair bill.

Nice Job.

SoK · 10-26-2010, 02:23 PM

so now that his IMS/RMS updates are complete, how long do you expect them to last before preventative maintainance requires their replacement again?

Thanks

:EDIT: Also, and aside from preventative maintainance, is it really better for these motors to run them every day at higher revs? I still find it difficult to comprehend that the added stress of daily use can help to delay failurs like these, or the IMS/RMS issues.

Thank you!

02box · 10-27-2010, 06:32 AM

I picked up the boxster at Jakes yesterday. was a beautiful drive over in the rented VW Beetle. the drive thru that part of the country is amazing this time of year. the winding roads, climbing up and over the peaks and then back down the other side was a blast. all in front of the monster storm that was brewing.
the ride back was more fun since I had the Box back. it rained hard while we pushed thru the twisties. reminded me of racing my vintage Formcar FV in the rain at IRP.
As far as the car and the repairs, I feel fortunate that the original failure was only the AOS and that the engine wasn't hurt from it. I had contemplated doing the bearing upgrade to the IMS anyway and since I was close enough to Jakes shop (250 miles) to have the car sent there it seemed silly not to have it done while it was there. I feel good having had it done for me and for the next guy /gal that owns this car. I also feel good about the dyno testing/ leakdown tests etc. that were done to evaluate the motor.
Jakes operation is first class. the shop is quite a place. The car runs like a champ.
for me this was a no brainer given the situation. I wasn't ready to spend a ton of money on a new motor so this worked out well.
These cars are not for the financially faint at heart. repairs can and will be very expensive. too bad porsche doesn't provide replacement engines at affordable price but that seems to be the deal with most higher end cars.
planned obsolesence.
I'm am a very satisfied customer. I know there are a lot of other things that can go wrong with these motors but I feel like I did what I could to keep this nice little boxster on the road.
Jake was totally honest with me along and He did everything that he said he would. I'm back on the road and would do it the same way again.
Jake seems to really care about the cars and the people. I'm glad they were there.

Pat Keefe
2002 Boxster Base, Tip, and, upgraded IMS Bearing

86,000 miles and counting...

Jake Raby · 10-27-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

so now that his IMS/RMS updates are complete, how long do you expect them to last before preventative maintainance requires their replacement again?

My magic wand is not working right now...

Honestly there is no telling here in the real world.. If I were the kind of guy that didn't feel strongly about over-stating things I'd tell you what you want to hear and I'd give you a false sense of security.. It would taste really good all sugar coated.

Our components currently have a 100% success rate, none have failed so trying to gather information about how long they will last is absolutely impossible.

-----------------------

Quote:

I picked up the boxster at Jakes yesterday. was a beautiful drive over in the rented VW Beetle. the drive thru that part of the country is amazing this time of year. the winding roads, climbing up and over the peaks and then back down the other side was a blast. all in front of the monster storm that was brewing.

People wonder why we are located where we are.. You just explained it! Plus I get to work on the property thats been in my family for almost 100 years, where I grew up and where I want to be every day...

Quote:

the ride back was more fun since I had the Box back. it rained hard while we pushed thru the twisties. reminded me of racing my vintage Formcar FV in the rain at IRP.

Did you go back over the dragon on the way home?

Quote:

As far as the car and the repairs, I feel fortunate that the original failure was only the AOS and that the engine wasn't hurt from it.

That day you should have played the lottery. you were very lucky!

Quote:

I had contemplated doing the bearing upgrade to the IMS anyway and since I was close enough to Jakes shop (250 miles) to have the car sent there it seemed silly not to have it done while it was there. I feel good having had it done for me and for the next guy /gal that owns this car.

I absolutely concur... Not many cars leave here without an IMSR applied, or a full FSI engine upgrade.

Quote:

I also feel good about the dyno testing/ leakdown tests etc. that were done to evaluate the motor.

It performed well...

Quote:

Jakes operation is first class. the shop is quite a place.

And you only saw 1/3 of where the magic happens :-)

Quote:

The car runs like a champ.
for me this was a no brainer given the situation. I wasn't ready to spend a ton of money on a new motor so this worked out well.

Glad to hear!

Quote:

I'm am a very satisfied customer. I know there are a lot of other things that can go wrong with these motors but I feel like I did what I could to keep this nice little boxster on the road.

GREAT!!!!!

Quote:

Jake was totally honest with me along and He did everything that he said he would.

If I didn't my Dad would roll over in his grave.. He literally beat that into me and the USMC finished it off!

Quote:

I'm back on the road and would do it the same way again.

Thats what matters most.

Quote:

Jake seems to really care about the cars and the people. I'm glad they were there.

Yep. Thats the ONLY reason we do this...

It was great working with you, Pat. Come see us sometime, or grab a beetle and let me show you what I can really do!

tnoice · 10-27-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by extanker

maybe the AOS went bad and semi lock the motor giving you that nasty cranking noise

I THINK EXTANKER HIT IT RIGHT ON THE NOSE BY THE THIRD POST!!

On a side note though, it is great to add reliability and peace of mind with one little part.

mikefocke · 10-27-2010, 04:43 PM

hydrolock the motor, things can get pretty busted up in there. What he got by going to Jake was not just an AOS change but an analysis of the engine for any secondary damage. That he got out of there with so little (easy for me to say, I wasn't paying) wrong with the engine was luck. He now has peace of mind not only because of the AOS and IMS but because of the analysis of the state of the engine.

What we got out of it was insight into the thought process that a very experienced mechanic went through to identify the problem and to insure that that was the only problem and it was worth fixing.

Thanks to both 02box and Jake for sharing the experience with us.

Jake Raby · 10-27-2010, 05:24 PM

Had I just thrown an AOS on it without pulling the plugs and going further the engine would have failed the first time the #1 piston travelled toward TDC, while on the starter.

I've seen that happen before.. Throwing parts at a problem is quick and when it works it saves money. When it doesn, it can cost an engine.

Pat's description of what happened wasn't classic AOS, so I assumed the worst and worked from there.

tnoice · 10-27-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Had I just thrown an AOS on it without pulling the plugs and going further the engine would have failed the first time the #1 piston travelled toward TDC, while on the starter.

I've seen that happen before.. Throwing parts at a problem is quick and when it works it saves money. When it doesn, it can cost an engine.

Pat's description of what happened wasn't classic AOS, so I assumed the worst and worked from there.

I hope you did not think I meant any ill comments. You know, hindsight is 20/20. This thread was absolutely amazing to read, and the troubleshooting was amazing. Yes, many people would simply throw a AOS on and be done with it and break the motor in the process, and then say.....must have been something else. I have a friend of mine that took a ford explorer to a local dealership and SOMEHOW while changing a fuel rail and injector flooded one of the cylinders with fuel and then immediatly cranked the motor over and blew the motor up. They told him....well it was our mistake, however the motor was already broke when you brought it in, and that led to the reason that it blew up. He had to pay $5,000 for a new motor. He is still fighting that one.

So question is, would you include changing out the AOS every 60-80,000 miles AND the water pump a good precautionary measure, or is it not needed. Run it till it breaks?

I think the insight and precautionary attitude is great. Thanks.