Boxster vs Carrera
 

After passing the greater part of summer in Europe, I am back to the real world and back on the forum. With plenty of free time to think, I got to wondering about the following question.

I am interested to hear the point of view of the members on a particular topic of Boxster vs Carrera.

Is your choice to own a Boxster only about the price differential or because it is more of a "true" sports car, or any other reasons?

My decision was based on the cost initially, as in Australia as many of you are aware, cars are very expensive. I paid almost $55k USD for a 2000 Boxster S about 2 1/2 years ago (pre GFC, however they still sell for about $35k USD today) and a 2002 carrera (3.6L) would have cost more than double that, so the choice was an easy one for me.

Since then I have revisited the idea of buying a Carrera, although they do not feel as "sporty" as the Boxster, and although more powerful, are less fun to drive in my opinion. A few guys I know, for whom money is not a factor in their decision, have started off driving a Boxster S, and have then taken a step up into a GT3. They feel that a Carrera is boring to drive after owning a Boxster.

I am just curious as to what people in the US feel and think about the Boxster vs Carrera choice. For us in Aus, Carrera drivers tend to be accounting firm partners and stockbrokers in their 50's having a mid-life crisis.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

If I lived somewhere with snow (more than here) I would consider a 996 Carrera 4. It would be a great and fast daily driver. Better in foul weather than the box. And cheap enough (here anyways) that I wouldn't worry about it too much. However if I lived somewhere perpetually warm I would probably go for a boxster spyder because i'm crazy. I will own a GT3 in my lifetime.

That being said, I have no reason that I would sell the Boxster. It's just way too much fun to drive.

I just got a near new 20 yr. old carrera 4 (964 - 1 owner, 20k mi.).

There is no comparison to the Boxster.

Not better or worse as a driving experience, just different. If Porsche didn't continually 'geld' the Boxster, I firmly believe it would overtake the 911 as their Flagship car. In terms of the sales numbers, it paces or outsells the 911, the Cayman is really just a sidenote with dismal, continually dropping, sales, it's been an utter sales failure for the company, perhaps a car with no niche.

What is better is the gobs of torque from the 3.6, and the build quality, maybe the provenance.

The Boxster is an assembly line car, the 964 is virtually hand built, and it shows. Close the door on the Boxster, and you get a nice confident feel to it. Close the door on the 964 and it's like closing a bank vault, solid, perfect.

Personally, I would not consider a water-cooled Carrera at all, though I admit many would disagree. Same M96 motor, same foibles - RMS, IMS, MAF, AOS, albeit with more oomph.

The modern cars are just as fast or faster. But the driving experience is definitely inferior to the air-cooleds.

It's interesting that for the same money that a 996 commands, you can only get into a nice 964, or a somewhat 'ratty' 993. That's either a testament to the 964/993, or a condemnation of the 996 - you choose.

My suggestion, find a nice 964 or 993. I think the difference will surprise you... in a nice way.

Cheers!

I just recently looked at an 03 Carrera and could not justify the 18 thousand dollar difference over my boxster S . My Boxster was better equipped , looked better and has the same build quality as the basic Carrera. 18 grand is not worth the 60 H.P. because thats all it came down too. My next car will be a Cayman S .

Porshe Sales
 

Lil B,

Normally I find your info insightful and accurate but your comments on Porsche sales are off the mark. I was browsing porsche financials a few weeks ago and was surprised. This link shows current year porsche sales

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/08/hot-porsche-sales-due-to-panamera-cayenne/1

And here are sales figures from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche

(I would not normally quote wiki but the numbers closely match excellence and Panorama) To summarize Porsche's US sales (which mirror worldwide sales) Cayenne is Porsche's best seller followed by the 911 then the Boxster/Cayman with Cayman sales higher than Boxster sales since introduction.

Best,
Tom

I've had front engine, mi-engine and rear engine cars.
 

Multiples of each.

I like the mid-engine...had 3.

I've liked the top down aspect of the Boxster but this NC summer has me rethinking that decision. 100-110 heat index (temp plus humidity) for days on end means I go out with the top down and within 2 miles I have the top up and the a/c on. I use the car for longish trips, nothing less than 12 miles one way, and everything from a "trash to the dump" run to a vacation trip. For short or winter drives I have the CRV, a little SUV. So I have as much invested in my cars as a Carrera would cost me so it isn't cost that is driving my choice.

I think I'd buy a Cayman. More practical luggage space, mid-engine handling. 300HP is more than enough for me...my 914 only had 85 and I got into enough trouble with the LEOs in it (Gads...that was 40 years ago!).

The Carreras, while iconic in shape, just don't do it for me and the luggage config leaves much to be desired. Plus I challenge anyone to use those rear "seats". I couldn't fit my 3 year old GD in one.

The only problem is "my" Cayman costs $94k every time I configure it. And my Boxster costs me an oil change each year...beastly reliable. So I keep the $ in investments and the income more than pays for the Boxster's upkeep. Daddy taught me don't put serious $ into depreciating assets (now why did I buy this house?).

I've owned at least one, sometimes more, of each 911 variant for the past twenty five years. My Boxster S puts a big smile on my face every time I drive it.

My good friend has a 3.8 Carrera S...very neat car and fun to drive, but I still like my Box.

Here they tend to be gynecologists (up to their elbows in work), Wall St. types, attorneys (we've got LOTS of them), drug dealers (a.k.a. "entrepreneurs") or anyone involved in defrauding the government.

Seriously, that may be the perception among the general public, but reality is they could be anybody, particularly owners of secondhand cars. All Porsches are amazingly more accessible here for "average people." From the Porsche Club I see they're mostly truly average people who love cars, though the ones with new Carreras tend to have to gray behind the temples and maybe some "chrome" on the dome. I'm getting there, but there's no Carrera on the horizon for me.

I have a question. If an eight year old Porsche costs $55K u.s. (not that I'm asking your income) what is the minimum income you have to have to get a car loan for this amount of money? What is the usual amount that an Australian spends on a boring type car (Accord'ish) and a slightly nicer car (Audi A4'ish)?

As for the question at hand. I had ZERO interest in other convertible Porsches.
A Carrera Cabriolet looks like a bathtub with a big butt and handled worse. I'm not sure if they're any better now. In terms of power, I've never really been impressed with the Porsches in the Boxster /CarreraS territory. One is certainly faster than the other but neither set the world on fire. If I were interested in a Carrera it would be one in a different performance category that usual comes with a much higher price tag. But my #1 go-to sports car will always be a mid eninge roadster. The lack of a true dry sump engine in most Carreras has always cooled the urgency to pick up a second Porsche. Although seeing the odometer climb higher on my pampered Boxster, particularly during our snowy winters, has increased my interest in a four wheel drive Carrera. The old Carreras look nice and don't feel numb like all modern Porsches, but I have no interest in spending a small fortune should I run into engine trouble. A water cooled Porsche engine may kick the bucket and in one day you can have a fairly new crate motor to get you back on the road for less money and more power. I doubt I will ever own an SUV but if I did I'm a lot more intrigued by the BMW X6 than a Cayenne.

Well, accuracy is important to me. I'm not going to argue about it, except to say I thought that's what I read in the recent panorama, I must have been wrong, sorry for the mis-info.

Cheers!

I bought my Boxster because I like the Boxster, not because I wanted a Porsche and couldn't buy a Carrera. I have no interest in the water cooled 911s.

I have owned a number of both models. I do prefer the Boxster as a pure driving car.

If I was going across country, I might pick a 911 cab.

Tough choice, no?

:D

zeintop on a boxster - ultimate car. you get a cayman but better looking - side vents look better, front spoiler looks better, overall best looking car not made by porsche since 1999. rare too; certain to be the only guy in town with one. plus you get a convertible when you need it. used top on a used 986S gets you in the game for under $20k. drive it like you stole it until (if) the engine caves, then stuff a 911 killer in it for another $20k. car will have no value at this point, but you'll be beating gt3's on the straights and tt's in the corners for under $40k and be looking cool in a cool way while doing it (no mid-life crisis here, folks).

I can afford much more of a car than I have on the road. I however like seeing the money go to retirement funds, traveling and hopefully beach front property and a sailboat.

I have no interest in burning up any more money in vehicles, so for me I love cars and wanted top down fun. The used Boxster offered me the best value and the most fun. I really like the turbo cab 911, but not until I get my grips on a nice vacation home first and then have plenty of fun money laying around. Lots of fun to be had elsewhere so I can't rationalize attributing so much resources to scoot my butt around the pavement, not until other goals are met at least.

I don't think it's just a cost issue. I do think the Boxster is a better handling car than the Carrera. I've got a 2000 Boxster S with JRZ coilovers and a 2003 Carrera 4S with TechArt coilovers. The Boxster will out handle my 911 any day. But the 911 does have more power to pull you out of a turn. I think the ideal would be a Boxster with 911 power.

I just got back from a 2,000 mile trip in the Boxster on some ultra twisty roads. Most of the trip was with the top down. Not for an instant did I wish I had driven the 911 instead. I really enjoyed the Box. Sure you can get the top down experience in a 911 cab, but they look like crap IMHO (big, bloated butt).

Still my C4S has its place. It definitely gets a lot more looks (full TechArt body kit and HRE wheels) and a lot more respect than the Box. The power is nice. Plus there are rear seats which my kids definitely do use. But when it comes to driving, the Boxster has the edge. Still, remember that you're comparing fine, German sports cars. So either the Box or the Carrera is going to be LOADS better than 99% of the other cars on the road!!!

Kirk

My 944 was built better than the Boxster on that I'll agree with lil B. As for the older driving experience, I disagree. The old 911's look just that, old, the 993 looks a little better. In a corner I'll take my Boxster over the 911 platform, if a person properly hopped up a Boxster, (at less than 18K investment) IMO, that car would be a 911 eating machine. I love the GT3 but I'd prefer a mid engined GT3.

OK, I'll bite!

My '04S is my 7th Porsche.... Started with a 356, 928S, Carrera2, 911SC, Carrera4, Carrera2 and now the S.

The older Porsches have a very special "feel" to them, starting with the floor mounted pedals, the built quaity, sound, smell, handling and so on. So much history and fun, a true drivers car! Love them!

The 928S was a superb cruiser but in my opinion a Porsche should be a true sports car in the first place.

The Boxster is a great car. I don't like the built quality much, my Audi and even The TReg we have is miles better. However Porsche did a great job to mimic the aircooled sound which I love much. Handling is beyond any critics! And for the money there is practically no alternative. With time I will tune the ride a bit with go fast bits (already started!) and keep this as a toy only ride.

In Germany the Boxster is called the hairdresser version but this car is pure Porsche, nothing "girly"!

Porsche will always keep the 911/Carrera above the Cayman and Boxster but the true carnut will consider the midengined cars in mind as the "insider" alternative for less with better handling. Heck, the magazines here rate a Cayman over the Carrera all day long. Even if it's not the all out fastest car it wins every time because of the handling/steering/brakes etc. 'nough said!

Well, this is a vs. thread so comparisons are relevant, but only to a point.

These are completely different cars beginning with the fact that one is a GT car while the other is a Roadster. The differences cascade from there - power, handling, design, manufacture and on and on.

I Loved my Boxster. I cherished it, serviced it, modded it, toured it, drove it in anger many times. I had the true Boxster experience.

But, I want to experience EVERY sports car the world has to offer. The limiting factors are Time and Money. I'll not likely ever know what it's like to wake up to a Ferrari Enzo, Carerra GT or Muira S, but there are many many more which are within reach. Of course I will never realize the dream fully, but I'm making a fair sized dent.

Money is a factor, but the biggest obstacle is Time. In order to stay the course, I cannot spend too much time with any one vehicle, I need to experience them and move on down the list. It's a real testament to the Boxster, given my tendencies, to have owned it for as many years as I did.

Now I'm on to something else and enjoying it for what it is. That doesn't mean I've lost respect for the Boxster or see it as inferior.

I also own a BMW 2002 which I am refining, I'm even manufacturing and selling several parts, incl. LED taillights for them. But someday too, it will be turned over to it's next custodian with hopes that he/she has as much fun with it as I'm having now.

Fate plays a role here too. I had no intention of selling the Boxster when along comes a 20 y.o. one-owner, low miles 911. Sometimes the car finds you.

And, if along my journey, I long to be in a Boxster again, I can always pick up another one. It's not like choosing a wife... it's only as permanent as you want it to be. You'll always be able to sell it and get something different.

Cheers!

I owned an 88 Targa for several years. I was in the process of being transferred from Colorado to Illinois and an acquaintance offered to buy it from me before the move. In a moment of weakness I sold it. It was a reasonable price for the car and it was too easy with a buyer at hand.

I went about a year without owning one at all and I came across my Boxster. It was in December of 2007 (winter in the midwest) and this guy was practically giving the car away. I bought it with the intent to flip it later in the spring. Once I started driving it, it was so much of a better car than my 911 that I ended up keeping it. I really love it!

The 911 was faster and felt more purpose built, but could be scary when driven at limit. The Boxster is easier to drive and is a better tool for an amateur driver such as myself. As a bonus, my wife hated the stiff riding 911 and date night was never in the Porsche. The Boxster is no problem, great A/C and a better tuned suspension. It feels planted in the corners and dampened over the bumps. I love the mid-engine handling. After a few years of ownership, the Boxster has been far more economical than the 911. Annual maintenance costs and insurance costs have been less and many of the issues that have come up are easy for the DIY'er. Resources like 986forum.com make owning this car a great deal.

Both great cars, but I definitely support the Boxster.

That's interesting because my hairdresser drives a 996 Cabriolet.
Sure he's gay too but that's an unrelated point. :D

Haha!
In Germany they don't refer to gay people driving Boxsters but women! And I would think twice to drive a Miata in the US....... :D


I support the Boxster as well but the older aircooled Porsche have more character!

more interesting... I don't know any straight guys who go to or even call the person who cuts their hair a "hairdresser" :D ;) j/k

(but seriously, I got to a barber or the cute young girl w/ the shop down the street)

If you are interested to see the prices we pay in Australia, have a look at this website: carsales.com.au

Less expensive cars are not so disproportionately expensive. We have an extra tax on new vehicles with a purchase price net of the tax in excess of 57,000 aud (about $50k USD). This tax is called a Luxury Car Tax and is set at 25%, so basically any car costing more than $50k USD brand new is subject to 25% of its value paid in a further tax on top of the 10% sales tax and the transfer duty (about 8% on my Boxter just for transfer).
This 25% is only payable on new cars, however it filters down through the second hand market due to arbitrage between second hand and new prices.

To cut through all the tax accounting/economics/finance of it all, we pay more than 2 times the price for our Porsches.

The average yearly wage in the state I live in is just over $70,000 AUD ($63,000 USD) before tax, which translates roughly to $50k USD after tax. This figure is a statistical mean.

In terms of borrowing money to buy cars, I believe it is relatively easy here. I have never borrowed for a car (too much debt in margin loans and business, don't need any more), but most people I know do not seem to have difficulties doing this. I know finance companies will only lend against cars up to 10 years of age, therefore if you want the car on a 5 year loan term, it cannot be older than 5 years. On a new car it is normal to have a 5 year term with anything up to 40% residual to be paid at the end. Interest runs at between 8% and 9% as long as the borrower has good credit and does not need to go to a second tier lender. As for the income necessary, it depends more on disposable income than net. Other loans and obligations, dependents etc are taken into account. As a guide, a loan of $50k for 5 years with zero residual should cost close to 1,100 a month in repayments. If someone could prove disposable income of this amount with other loans and living expenses taken into account, they should be able to borrow the money.

Sorry for the long windedness, but it is the only way to explain the full picture here, rather than just the shock value in "wow, cars cost twice as much there" type thing.

Hope this answers your questions.

I think many can agree that the Boxster/ Cayman platform is a better starting point than the 996/ 997, and it's really a shame that Porsche won't sell the car that we all want (a high powered 986/987). It can, however, certainly be done after the fact, though depending upon how much of that work you can do yourself vs paying a shop the price figures vary considerably. A Boxster with 911 power and the appropriate suspension is one hell of a car, and will run circles around a 996.

I do, however, yearn for a water cooled Turbo, and now that their prices have settled so low in this economy, am very interested in picking one up.

Regarding the older, air cooled 911s- are they better? I'd say that's for the owner to decide. They do feel considerably more "special." Their build quality is incredible. Pull any fastener out of a 964 and it's got anti-seize on it, for example. Are they more reliable? I think it depends how you define reliability. The air cooled cars certainly require more maintenance, but I think it's fair to say they have a far lower propensity to blow up. A properly running M96/M97 is virtually maintenance free (oil changes at 5-10k, spark plugs at 60k, maybe a water pump/ t-stat by 60k, maybe an AOS somewhere but nothing major) until it blows up, which hopefully, yours doesn't do.

In the end, like most things in life, it all boils down to personal preference.

In all of these comparsons, one of the most rare and definitely most overlooked and under-rated Porsches is always that, overlooked.
My all time favorite drivers car was my 71 914/6. Hands down, beyond comparison, no qualifications.
One of my best friends from both racing and business (major orthotics manufacturer) has a 70 914/6 with full 916 flares and wheels, full Turbo brakes and a factory 3.3 GT3 spec motor (If I remember right about 1995 GT3 specs, when it was built).
OMG!! My 987S is a big fat bow-wow dog compared to this car!
Now agreed, don't take the 914/6 on a trip and don't use it if you'll be crawling in and out of it ten times in a day, but if you want to go to your favorite twisties or a track day, don't take anything else.

Interesting story re the 914/6. In a similar vein, I think an early 986 Box with a 3.4 lump and some chassi tweaks must be a bit special, although ideally I would want heavier control weights.

Is it possible to get under drive pulleys to reduce the power assistance on the steering of a 986?

As many men as opinions so it seems. :)

One of the reasons I ask is that I may well be leaving Australia at the end of this year, and of course forced to part with my beloved Boxster S. I will be in Europe, and I will most likely buy a car in the US (will need some advice on that one) and have it shipped over. Since I will not be paying ridiculously high Australian prices, the cars cost is less (albeit slightly) of an issue. All this means is that my budget will allow for me to buy a 996 Carrera, or if I stretch it right out, a 996 Mk11 GT3 or a 996 turbo.

The alternative is this however. Buy another Boxster S, either bore it out or just buy a 3.6 and drop that in there. Go nuts on the suspension, basically buy everything Tarrett has for sale for the Box, coupled with a decent set of coilovers. Go on a weight saving mission, replacing some panels with CF, removing all sound deadening and replacing with normal carpet etc... I think you guys get the picture now.

The second alternative is easily achievable as I know a very reliable and thorough mechanic over there who works for around $400 USD per week, so labour costs are essentially not even a factor in the decision.

My point is this. I understand that the value of the Box would never reflect what I spent, but I do not see my car as an investment, so I do not really care about this. Which alternative would make for the most enjoyable sports car experience? That is all I am after.

Yes, there are several under drive pulleys available. The stock pulley is 6 inches. Most UD pulleys available are 5 inches, and a couple are 4 inches. I just installed a 4 inch pulley. You may want to check out this thread.

http://986forum.com/forums/diy-project-guides/23057-underdrive-pulley-install-guide.html

Cost was not a factor in my decision. The Boxster is a better choice for me.


I'd certainly enjoy an air colled 911 -- who wouldn't? But I'm not sure an older 911 would be appropriate for how I use my car -- 10+K miles per year as a daily driver.


These days, the 911 is a GT not a sportscar.

Thanks Backman - did your smaller pulley make a noticeable difference to steering weight?

Pothole,
You probably won't feel a difference with the power steering weighting, but you will feel a difference in the extra power at low to medium speed - about 10 hp according to Jake Raby. An added bonus is that the engine anciliaries (alternator/waterpump/power steering pump etc) seem to run much quieter as they are turning slower.

OK, thanks - I'm not worried about chasing small power gains, but modern Porsche steering is a bit over-assisted for my taste. I was hoping less drive to the pump might weight things up a bit...

Pothole, IMO, some of what you're describing is the incredible responsiveness of Boxster steering, first drive it feels so quick it's almost twitchy.

No, it's really not that. My previous car had a quicker rack than the Box. The problem (for me) is the level of assistance - there's too much, ie the steering is too light for my taste. Jump in a 964 or a 968 and you'll see what I mean. They're both assisted, but compared to modern Porsches, you might not think so at first, they're so much heavier.

If money or value after is not the issue a Boxster of Cayman with a 987 3.8S motor in it ( and upgraded brakes and suspension) would be, hands down, the most fun car you could ever own. Here is a utube link to such a car. hope you enjoy :eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd7do9F7iM0

pothole - i hear you. the light steering, combined w/ the egas, relays clicking every time you press the clutch, etc., results in a 'disconnected' feeling from the car; videogamish. originally turned me off the car on my first drive. bought it anyhow and am used to it - drive it harder and get more feedback as a result.

Yeah - fortunately my car has a cable throttle, not egas.

As it happens, I briefly drove a 997.2 GT3 the other day. Had real trouble with rev matching cleanly due to what felt like a bit of lag on the egas. You don't read about that in all the fawning road tests and reviews. Very disappointing!