OT: What do you think of the new 370Z vs your boxster or a cayman?

[23109VC]

having read though the latest car mags, I have to say I think the new Z looks pretty cool. I have test driven the older 350Z and I hated it. It was a total POS in my opinion. My main beefs were that it felt like a cheap car and wasn't all that fast. I've never been a fan of american cars - I don't like the Vettes - and the Z had that "american car" feel to me....

the new Z looks verynice in the pictures. maybe in person it drives lousy - but on paper it looks pretty cool.

C&D did a shootout and had it up against the RX8 R3, and some other cars. I've driven the RX8 and THAT is a fun car, albeit underpowered in that price segment.

If I ever sold my boxster to buy another sports car and did NOT buy another newer boxster, I'd consider the Cayman, and now that I've seen the reviews on the new Z, I wonder how people will consider it up against the likes of a car like a Cayman. I know that people buying a new Cayman are NOT going to be cross shopping a Nissan Z...totally different price point - BUT if you were shopping in the 35k price point - you could get into a used cayman or a new Z.... and they are in a similar class of cars in terms of specs....

i have to say - I would rather have a used cayman, even a base model than the new Z...but I haven't driveneitehr. maybe afte rdriving both i'd be sold on the nissan... it sure doe slook good on paper and in the photos.

any of you test drive one yet? there are a few cars out there that have suprised me in terms of whether I liked them AFTER a test drive. I test drove thelatest EVO X and completely HATED it. it did NOT impress me at all. the same day I test drove an RX8 and loved it. pure sports car - just not super fast. but the feel and handling was close to the boxster in terms of "fun" factor and balance.

the new Z might be a big hit and sell like nuts - or maybe it's just the same old lame Z with slightly nicer interiora nd a bit more power and deep down it's the sasme car. the mags are tyring to tout it as if it were a whole new car recreated.

i dolike how it evokes images of the original 240Z. you can clearly see the 240 in the lines of the new 370. more so than any other Z. at least to me.

I certainly woulnd't sell my boxster (i'd only get like 10k for my car) and then have to shell out 20-25k MORE to get the new Z.... but if I was dead set on a cayman (used) and had only 30-35k to spend - I might give a new Z a test drive. it would probably blow a base cayman off the road - and it sounds like it give shte Cayman S a run for it's money...although I wonder if when you drie it around, and toss it through turns, if the balance/midengined layout of the cayman (and our boxsters) would easily show itself and you would FEEL that the midengined Porsche is far superior in feel and "fun".

[boxster1]

If you look back on automotive history there have always high-end cars and there have always been lower priced cars with big engines. Nothing, in this regard, will ever change.

[Lil bastard]

Nope. I owned a 240, 260 and 280 and this car is nothing like them. First, I bought my 240 new for $3345 (with every available option) - less than a new Super Beetle, this thing options out north of $38k!

The original Z was RAW - a large part of it's appeal... this one is too refined, no comparison.

The S30 (240,260,280) weighed 2355lbs. while this porker runs just under 3200lbs.

Interesting that this same engine in the Infinity G37 Coupe is rated at 350HP (though it outweighs it by 400lbs.) , but only 332HP for the Z - Nissan's Sports Car?

They're just marketing on the name... but that'll probably be enough to see reasonable sales numbers, just not me.

[Banana S]

Looks to me like it would be AWFULLY hard to put the top down on the 370Z's that are available right now...








(And if the 370Z Convertible, once it's eventually released, is as butt-ugly as the 350Z Convertible, well... I don't think I'll be trading in the Killer Banana any time soon.)

[threpwood]

Z is not comparable to Boxster IMO. Nothing against Japanese cars since I drive one too (Honda), but I think most of the newer sport Japanese car is produced like home appliances, no originality. Before Nissan replaced their president with Carlos Ghosn (Renault head too), the Z was a discontinued product. Carlos Ghosn revived the Z and remade the Z with European style interior etc and stuffed it with bigger engine. However despite their effort, IMO, Z still lack of originality.

If I wanted raw horsepower, then Corvette would be the choice.

[eightsandaces]

The new Z will have it's niche and will no doubt appeal to many. Nissan has a ways to go before they can fill a resume with the motosports history of Porsche. If it's only about numbers on paper and mind numbing acceleration then get a Vette and be done with it.

[Samson]

I've not driven a 370, but I have driven a 350. Aside from the feeling of sitting in a bathtub (similar feeling in a TT) and the truck-like engine noise from the inside, it was a bunch of fun. Great power, decent feedback, but maybe more importantly, amazingly easy burnouts.

But it is a different car than the Boxster. Where the Boxster is delicate and slightly refined, the 350 is more of a sledgehammer. Both are fun in their own right. The 370 is supposed to be more on the civilized side, and it compares favorably to the Cayman S.

http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/versus/Motive_Versus_Nissan_370Z_vs_Porsche_Cayman_S.shtm l

threpwood - I disagree with your originality complaint. All things considered, the 370 is a pretty good evolution of cars like the 300zx. Sure, it has some questionable design details, but they are anything but unoriginal. It has interesting features like SyncroRev.

And Japanese sport cars in general? What's unoriginal about an RX8 or S2000? Those are all very unique in their own right. Rotary, real 4-door coupe (not that CLS or CC abomination), 9k redline on both cars... Sure, the MX-5 is just a modern interpretation of the classic British sports car, but it brought the entire genre back to the masses in a fun, reliable, and affordable way. Without the incredible success of the original Miata, I doubt we'd even have the Boxster.

[tamarsha]

Seems to be a popular subject right now. Pick up this month's Road and Track.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=7659

[LoveBunny]

The only Z I ever drove was in the early '90s and it was only a year old, if that. At the time I had a 944 that was maybe 8 or so years old. Even though the Z was new and perfect and had not a thing wrong with it, I preferred my 944. The Z was nice, don't get me wrong, but it just felt loose and cheap compared to the 944 even though I bought my 944 for about $10k and the dude who had the Z had paid about $30k+ for it.

I just think Porsches are better built and always will be and their beauty is classic.

[threpwood]

Originally Posted by Samson

threpwood - I disagree with your originality complaint. All things considered, the 370 is a pretty good evolution of cars like the 300zx. Sure, it has some questionable design details, but they are anything but unoriginal. It has interesting features like SyncroRev.

And Japanese sport cars in general? What's unoriginal about an RX8 or S2000? Those are all very unique in their own right. Rotary, real 4-door coupe (not that CLS or CC abomination), 9k redline on both cars... Sure, the MX-5 is just a modern interpretation of the classic British sports car, but it brought the entire genre back to the masses in a fun, reliable, and affordable way. Without the incredible success of the original Miata, I doubt we'd even have the Boxster.

Ah yes the engine. Of course, most car makers have their own uniqueness in their engines because engine is the backbone, but what I was referring to is the overall design of the car to the eyes of the drivers, which IMO truly lacks the originality.

I noticed that many of these Japanese car makers is trying too hard to make these sport cars to 'look' like Porsches, Ferraris etc which they are not. That is why I said these Japanese car makers are lacking originality and 'lost' because to make something look "good", they must copy the current European style and make these cars into something that they are not. For example, for the thing as simple as A/C vent, how many Japanese sports car or even passenger cars that now have that European-style round A/C vent?

As for the Japanese car makers trying to be original, a good example is probably Toyota Prius (not a sports car but a good example). The car has a very good invented engine, but they are truly lacking in the design department because the car looks like a running rice cooker or microwave-oven for trying to look 'futuristic'. In the next few years, I am quite positive that they will get a photograph of newer Porsche coupe, Maseratti etc and totally rebuild the shape of the car based on that styles.

As for American sport cars, I am kind of glad that it went back to the basic style of muscle cars, such as Mustang & Camaro because it shows the originality of the product.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by threpwood

I noticed that many of these Japanese car makers is trying too hard...

Round A/C vents are European now? I had no idea that they invented the circular dash vent! Many, many, many cars have had various shaped/sized/colored what-have-yous over a wide range of years. It has little to nothing to do with country of origin and everything to do with whatever design trend happens to be popular at the moment. By your logic, I could say that those fancy pants rounded Euro-pee-an A/C vents were ripped off from the Italians. I mean, a 1966 Fiat 124 had round dash vents.

The "euro" taillights that my other car (the 100% Japanese Lexus IS300/Toyota Atezza) unfortunately popularized are used in all sorts of cars from all countries these days. Even ze Germans. Know what? It doesn't mean that they are unoriginal; they are just giving the customer what they want.

Hell, even the "Bangle Butt" isn't even original. A similar design was first used by Hyundai on the 2001 XG300.

The point here is that everything is derivative of everything else. Sure, there are some unique elements that might be indicative of a certain country of origin... but what are we talking about again? The 370z and the Boxster? Yeah. They're both unoriginal derivations of the 1991 Geo Metro Convertible. All Porsche and Nissan did was double the cylinder count and add some leather, so they both suck.

Oh - The design of the Prius is dictated by the wind tunnel. It is a car made to have a very low coefficient of drag, and a truncated teardrop is the current shape of choice. Look at a Honda Insight or, to a lesser extent, a Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe. It is that shape for a reason. Now, the inside of the Prius might be ugly as sin, but it is designed for the intended techy audience, and it works.

[Pieman]

I just signed up for this forum today. I was at the Cleveland Auto Show ten days ago and went back and forth in the new Z and Boxster and Cayman. Mind you I am now only getting into the position where I can begin to think about a used Z, Boxtster or Cayman.

I liked the new Z over the old Z. But I sat in a dark green Boxster with cocoa brown interior and I was blown away. I used to think about a TT until I sat in that Boxster. The Cayman was really something too -- black and red leather.

If Porsche has ugraded its interiors, I would like to know when that happened.

But for now, I hope to learn more from this forum and get into position as a discerning buyer in 2010.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by Pieman

I just signed up for this forum today...

Welcome

The Boxster received the major interior upgrade/redesign in 2005 with the release of the 987. The 986 (1997-2004) is the model with the original interior.

Thinking about a TT and the Boxster? Go drive them back to back... you'll probably end up with the Boxster if what you want is a good driver. I say probably because if the TT you drive happens to be a TT RS, well... yeah.

[Lordblood]

Hah, if you really take copying that far we can go as far as saying any car is a copy of the horse and buggy: Both are bodies with wheels being propelled by something that creates power.

That's why we can't say one is the copy of the other. As an oligopoly the car market is always in rivalries and must jump on the bandwagon if it wishes to stay alive. Manufacturers that try to go "solo" ends up dead or near dead, just look at TVR.

I think the Japanese aren't copying though, they still share many similarities. Most Japanese sports cars have turbocharged engines, they all tend to be really good handlers, and tend to be cheaper than what they compete with, isn't that a bit different than the competition?

[threpwood]

Originally Posted by Lordblood

Hah, if you really take copying that far we can go as far as saying any car is a copy of the horse and buggy: Both are bodies with wheels being propelled by something that creates power.

That's why we can't say one is the copy of the other. As an oligopoly the car market is always in rivalries and must jump on the bandwagon if it wishes to stay alive. Manufacturers that try to go "solo" ends up dead or near dead, just look at TVR.

I think the Japanese aren't copying though, they still share many similarities. Most Japanese sports cars have turbocharged engines, they all tend to be really good handlers, and tend to be cheaper than what they compete with, isn't that a bit different than the competition?

This discussion is never about engine, it is the look of the car.

If economy is the reason where car makers or any kind of manufacturer must jump on the bandwagon in order to stay alive, then we are all doom and our whole economy will be ruled by China (if not already) since there are no real intellectual property rules there (look at Tiffanys, Channel etc).

[Lordblood]

Originally Posted by threpwood

This discussion is never about engine, it is the look of the car.

If economy is the reason where car makers or any kind of manufacturer must jump on the bandwagon in order to stay alive, then we are all doom and our whole economy will be ruled by China (if not already) since there are no real intellectual property rules there (look at Tiffanys, Channel etc).

I guess they have sold out look wise, the original Japanese sports cars were box-shaped, not curvecious.

But if you think cars are made with "heart and soul" in mind than you're very mistaken. Capitalism rewards what sells, not what has heart and soul. Therefore, if some idea sells well, everyone goes on board.

[986Porsche986]

nissan =

Porsche =

enough said.

[Lordblood]

I saw it had a "auto-blipper" in the manual gearbox, basically it revved the engine a bit when you downshifted and were taking your foot of the clutch. That turned me off it, part of the fun of driving a manual is to be able to perfectly blip it into a lower gear.

I have the same problems with the new Z as the old, looks fat to me, and it may have a good bit power more than the Boxster but it 300 pounds heavier, so it needs the extra grunt.

Boxster and the Z4 are still my favorites in the range as far the overall quality and performance, even with the higher price tag.