Porsche and J.D. Power - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

gregdacat · 06-08-2008, 12:52 PM

The forum seems to have taken a negative turn of late. So, I have posted some good news. . .

Porsche® Brand First in J.D. Power and Associates 2008 Initial Quality Study

Receives the Highest Marks for a Manufacturer - And Porsche 911 Highest Initial Quality Among All Vehicles Surveyed

ATLANTA--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Porsche continues to meet and exceed the quality demands of consumers in its largest export market, the United States. Porsche recorded the top ranking of all brands surveyed in the 2008 J.D. Power and Associates “Initial Quality StudySM”. This makes it three consecutive years that the Porsche brand had the fewest problems per 100 vehicles in this prestigious brand ranking. The scores were based on interviews of 81,500 new car owners from across the country.

Incredibly, not only did the Porsche brand come out on top, but the legendary Porsche 911 has the highest initial quality of any vehicle in the study. According to J.D. Power and Associates, the Porsche 911 has the fewest quality problems in the industry, with just 67 problems per 100 vehicles.

Every year, J.D. Power and Associates assesses the level of satisfaction among buyers of new cars after the first 90 days of vehicle ownership. On this basis, a customer is asked to fill out a survey containing 228 criteria regarding quality and workmanship.

Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (PCNA), based in Atlanta, GA, and, Porsche Cars Canada, Ltd. (PCC) in Mississauga, Ontario, are the two separate importers of Porsche sports cars and Cayenne sport utility vehicles for the United States and Canada respectively. They are each wholly owned, indirect subsidiaries of Dr. Ing.h.c. F. Porsche AG. These two subsidiaries combined, PCNA and PCC employ approximately 250 people who provide Porsche vehicles, parts, service, marketing and training for its 200 U.S. and 12 Canadian dealers. They, in turn, provide Porsche owners with best-in-class service.

Brucelee · 06-08-2008, 03:57 PM

No offense but the initial quality survey has nothing to do with the issues we have been discussing. Yes, cars that retail for over 50-100K SHOULD be trouble free for 90 days, no?

JCL12 · 06-08-2008, 05:06 PM

I think these JD initial quality surveys are bogus. If I recall, mercedes was 4th and they make some of the crappiest cars in Germany. Frankly, initial quality over the first 90 days doesn't mean much to me. What I care about is good quality both initially and 7 years down the line.

Is a car really "quality" if it is defect free for the first 90 days and then the engine blows up after 25K miles? However, I will admit it is nice to see PCar on this list so that non-owners have the perception Porsche produces well made cars.

baseball · 06-08-2008, 05:50 PM

Agreed, 90 days of reliability is not impressive. But JDP also has a predicted reliability rating based on trending 3 years of data:

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/Porsche/Boxster/2007/Convertible/ratings

Based on this data, JDP gives the Boxster 5 stars for predicted reliability.

Consumer Reports long term data also gives the Boxster a "Better than Average" rating for dependability.

If the Boxsters are as brittle as some have characterized them lately, I wish someone would point to a long-term study that proves it.

As W. Edwards Deming said - "In God we trust; all others bring data."

rick3000 · 06-08-2008, 06:25 PM

I could see the Boxster getting an average, or above average rating in a long term study.
You just have to put it all into context. A Boxster is going to cost more to repair than your average car, and I am sure everyone who bought one new that before they bought it.

Second, all the RMS and IMS failure reports are not representative of all Boxster's.
There a lot of Boxster's that have never had problems. Looking on the internet alone, will not give you clear results, because someone with a problem is more likely to search the internet for an answer vs. a person who has never had a problem. So you get more reports of problems on the internet, but not in proportion to all the Boxsters in the world.
If that makes any sense!

Jaxonalden · 06-08-2008, 07:08 PM

I agree with Gregdacat, "The forum seems to have taken a negative turn of late."
Brucelee says "cars that retail for over 50-100K SHOULD be trouble free for 90 days, no?" Well, Highest in Initial Quality means what it says. It doesn't say trouble free, it means fit & finish. What's up with people on this forum? Be proud of Porsche for achieving that level in the world they operate in. Where it's dog eat dog and the raising cost of materials are forcing other car company's to take short cuts and using cheaper materials. Yea these car are expensive, but not as expensive as some that are real pieces of crap. As a matter of fact, for the performance, these cars (Boxsters) are a a great bargain.

To everyone that complains about the Boxster, sell it and buy a Pontiac Solstice or a Saturn Sky. Then you'll really hear the wining about quality! Performance and handling, forget about it.

I also desnorkled today, big difference going from sucking air through a 2.25" x 3" hole to a 3" x 4" hole.

husker boxster · 06-08-2008, 08:20 PM

I've been very impressed with the quality of my LE. After 5 mo and 5500 mi, there hasn't been anything I've needed replaced or adjusted by the dealer. There aren't even any niggling issues. It's been perfect. My salesman even sent me an email and said it's OK to stop by and say HI. This is the 5th new car I've purchased (1st new Porsche) and it's been the best initial quality of any of them. Should a $60K automobile have a higher quality std than a $20K car? Yes, but we all know some premium manufacturers are better than others.

I was at a party Fri night and someone mentioned the high ranking by JD Power. I was unaware of this, so I could neither confirm nor deny it. But casual car people seem to be noticing Porsche's good grades. As BruceLee says, it's a survey on initial quality, let's see how it holds up in 3-6 yrs.

BTW...
I gave the kids at the party a ride around the neighborhood. A 6 yr old boy jumped out of my car and proclaimed, "That's the best 5 min of my entire life!"

Brucelee · 06-09-2008, 02:31 AM

If you look at the 3 yr data more closely, you see a bit of a dip on the issue of drivetrain reliability.

Down from 5 circles to 3.5. I would guess that is our IMS/RMS issue but who knows?

I don't believe that pointing out the engine issues is being "negative." If someone has a tanked engine, are you expecting them to be happy?

Said that, we love the box, esp if it has a warranty.

Brucelee · 06-09-2008, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxonalden

I agree with Gregdacat, "The forum seems to have taken a negative turn of late."
Brucelee says "cars that retail for over 50-100K SHOULD be trouble free for 90 days, no?" Well, Highest in Initial Quality means what it says. It doesn't say trouble free, it means fit & finish. What's up with people on this forum? Be proud of Porsche for achieving that level in the world they operate in. Where it's dog eat dog and the raising cost of materials are forcing other car company's to take short cuts and using cheaper materials. Yea these car are expensive, but not as expensive as some that are real pieces of crap. As a matter of fact, for the performance, these cars (Boxsters) are a a great bargain.

To everyone that complains about the Boxster, sell it and buy a Pontiac Solstice or a Saturn Sky. Then you'll really hear the wining about quality! Performance and handling, forget about it.

I also desnorkled today, big difference going from sucking air through a 2.25" x 3" hole to a 3" x 4" hole.

I'don't know. Are the GM cars grenading their engines? They are a bit cheaper t buy, no?

Brucelee · 06-09-2008, 02:38 AM

Warrany isn't bad for the Soltice. Box is 4/50K.

Covered for five years/100,000 miles

General Motors will warrant each 2008 and 2009 model year passenger car for 5 years, or 100,000 miles/160,000 kms. with no deductible, whichever comes first, from the original in-service date of the vehicle, for warrantable repairs which are required as a result of defects due to material and/or workmanship to the Powertrain components as listed below:

Engine
Cylinder head, block, timing gears, timing chain, timing cover, oil pump/oil pump housing, OHC carriers, valve covers, oil pan, seals, gaskets, turbocharger, supercharger and all internal lubricated parts as well as manifolds, flywheel, water pump, harmonic balancer and engine mount. Timing belts are covered until the first scheduled maintenance interval.

Transmission/Transaxle/Transfer Case
Case, all internal lubricated parts, torque converter, transfer case, transmission/transaxle mounts, seals, and gaskets.

Drive Systems
Final drive housing, all internal lubricated parts, axle shafts and bearings, constant velocity joints, axle housing, propeller shafts, universal joints, wheel bearings, locking hubs, front differential actuator, supports, front and rear hub bearings, seals and gaskets.

Quickurt · 06-09-2008, 04:25 AM

A good friend of mine bought a Solstice (sp?) last year. He is sick he has this piece of crap. It's been back to the dealer on a monthly basis to repeatedly fix the same fall apart, typical cheap crap problems. But thats the easy part to take. What he's really sick of are the repeated serious problems with the car. They have replaced front shocks and suspension several times and the replacement parts are just more of the same crap that failed the first, second, third, etc., times.
I stop by Brumos at least once a week, as my salesman and I are friends. I've known the parts manager for 35 years, as I actually twisted wrenches there many moons ago.
I almost never see a box in the service department. The service department whines because there's almost no work to do on Boxs and Caymans, especially compared to Porsches of only a few years ago.
As far as the negativity around here, well, I've seen it before. I used to have an RX8 and it was a great car for the money, but also had some problems. The RX8 forum was originally a fun place. Being a vendor to Mazda and having inside contact with both North America Operations and Mazda Japan, I did what I could to get people together with folks who could help solve their problems. Mazda bent over backwards to take care of their customers, even replacing engines in cars not-too-far out of warranty, as I've heard Porsche has also done. No manufacture is going to replace engines in cars years and thousands of miles out of warranty.
Before long the guys with the problems take over the entire forum and the rest of us walk away to places we can enjoy. Better yet, we take the time wasted listening to the whiners and spend it DRIVING OUR GREAT CARS.
The choice is yours.
If you don't like your Boxster, sell it, trade it, park it or burn it, it's yours. You are quite free to buy anything else in it's place and then go to their forum and complain how much you miss your Boxster.

TimAustinW · 06-09-2008, 06:13 AM

I got my 2002 Volkswagen Beetle brand new from the dealership, two weeks into it my headlights popped out when I braked too hard once at a stop light.

That was just the beginning and the simplest of issues. I won't even go into the other stuff.

Nuff said. Don't lose perspective. The biggest two issues (RMS and cracked lining) with the Boxster is rare enough between owners. (Common enough to affect those unlucky few). Have you ever heard of Porsches having a laundry list of smaller issues like the friggin headlights popping out two weeks after purchase?

rick3000 · 06-09-2008, 06:28 AM

I agree. The Solstice is not a very good car. They look great, and go fast but if you have ever been in one you'll know why you bought your Boxster instead.
Plus, the Solstice has no space, the trunk is big enough for one sweater and that is it. If you want to to travel for the weekend you have to get a setup like this:

Jaxonalden · 06-09-2008, 06:38 AM

After reading the last couple of posts my confidence is building again, and that this forum is for people that love their Boxsters. And also for those of us looking for answers and advice on how to make them better and save a few bucks by working on them ourselves, not bashing 'em.

TimAustinW · 06-09-2008, 07:10 AM

Talking about storage space. The Boxster RULES ON STORAGE!!!!!! It blows away all the other midengine roadsters. MR2, Solstice, Sky, etc.

You think the Solstice is bad...My car before my Boxster was a 2003 MR2 Spyder. The engine is in the back (even though it's a mid engine) so no trunk space back there.

If you pop the hood you'll find a spare, that's it...

This is all you get for storage, enough space for a duffel bag behind the seats....I love my Boxster...

Brucelee · 06-09-2008, 07:56 AM

I don't think the concerns about the Boxster's long term issues is "whinning." I do think the Porsche company should simply fix them. Any world class car that has an engine that implodes for no apparent reason, well, I think they should do something about that.

If you think we are exaggerating, this is your perogative. Since no company is going to admit that they have these issues (save Toyota and Honda) we are never going to see hard data.

I never suggested the Soltice was a "better car" than the Boxster.

It does have a better warranty on the drivetrain and it costs maybe 20 grand less.

Clearly GM is OK about its warranty and Porsche about theirs.

Again, I love the Box and would not own one without a warranty. If that is whinning, well, I am a whinner.

I have been called much worse.

Quickurt · 06-09-2008, 08:33 AM

I was not directing anything at you, Brucelee, I was stating a fact I witnessed at another, at one time, good forum. Let's not let those with problems overshadow the rest, or the rest will leave.

Brucelee · 06-09-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quickurt

I was not directing anything at you, Brucelee, I was stating a fact I witnessed at another, at one time, good forum. Let's not let those with problems overshadow the rest, or the rest will leave.

Agreed. All is good!

Lil bastard · 06-09-2008, 02:44 PM

I don't put much stock in Initial Quality Surveys, especially when it comes to a vanity marque like porsche.

If you look at the actual report, porsche made the podium in only two categories - 2nd place with the Cayman and 3rd place with the Cayenne, how that translates into an overall IQS I don't know.

Many have waited so long to make the dream a reality - finally get their 1st porsche, that I feel they're more reticent to report issues (or have a mental frame of mind that the car could even have issues).

Personally, I would not rate porsche extremely high in an overall quality survey, not for the one I own, or others I have owned through the years. They're good, but IMHO, not great.

Jaxonalden · 06-09-2008, 07:13 PM

Brucelee, I'm sure when you started 986Forum.com it wasn't a soapbox for Boxster bashing. As you can tell I've only been a member since March, that's because I bought my Boxster in February, my first Porsche. Driving it around I actually feel embarrassed because there are so few Porsche owners out there and driving one (to me) means you've reached a point in your career where you can splurge and enjoy the finer things life has to offer, and not just dream about them.

Then I found your forum and was excited that I could communicate with others that own these fabulous cars and exchange ideas. I feel, and I've said this numerous times before, that the problems others face with used or new cars for that matter is because the car is abused and the OEM is blamed for it. I'm talking about the redline and rev limiter issue.

No one can tell me that just because a car cost $50K+ means it's suppose to take banging off the rev limiter all day long. These are production automobiles, not race cars. Then again, race cars also break and they're built specifically to run at high rpm's for extended periods. Things will break, seals will leak and manufactures will be blamed. I would love to see statistics (but never will) on how many cars with blown motors & IMS failures have been wound out a few to many times because "it's a Porsche" and now the OEM gets the black eye for not covering the loss.