Engine Failure - Help, What do I do?
 

This is my first post on the forum and I am desperately in need of some advice. I've had my 2001 Boxster S for only about 6 months. It just got the 60,000 mile inspection about a month ago. Last week while on a very short trip (only a few blocks) the coolant light started flashing. I had the car parked a few minutes then drove it home and the light had turned off. Same thing happened the next day so I called the dealer who instructed me to top it off with coolant. Everything seemed fine as the light went off again. Later as I was getting on the freeway I blew a big cloud of smoke out of the tailpipe and a few minutes later the lights flashing again and so is the check engine light. It wasn't overheating and didn't seem to be driving bad other than that but I was very concerned so I went straight home (not far). I didn't drive it all weekend and made an appointment with the dealer first thing on Monday morning. They said it was Ok to drive in as long as it wasn't overheating. Now I just got the call with the diagnosis. Engine Failure! They explained that it was leaking coolant into the oil. The only fix is a new (or possibly used) engine at a cost of $15,000! I have no idea what to do now. Its not as if I am a millionaire and that was a disposable toy. It was my baby and now I am absolutely heart broken. Any words of advice, wisdom, or comfort from anyone who has gone through this would be greatly appreciated.

Did you drive the car with a flashing CEL?

Only the 4 blocks home before calling the dealer who instructed me to top it off with water. He said that just meant that it was low on coolant. The next time I drove it the flashing light was off but turned on again when I got that puff of smoke out of the tailpipe.

It is my understanding that it was not the loss of coolant that caused the engine failure, but rather the other way around. The coolant was lost into the oil pan because of a cracked/shifted cylinder sleeve.

Saxster,

So sorry to hear that ! Unfortunately, it looks like you are not the only one that this has happened to :

http://986forum.com/forums/search.php?searchid=467825

I am suprised, it seems like this was a problem with the 99's, but you have a 01 :confused:

Can't offer much but my condolences...

Nick

When you lose coolant and it isn't coming OUT of the car, it is going IN, into the oil.

This is a very bad thing of course.

I do think you engine is toast. The cheapest route is a used engine, with all the caveats of that route.

Either way, get estimates from several reputable service shops, as the labor rates vary greatly.

Sorry and good luck.

For the future, if you get a coolant and CEL light at the same time,

Pull over and park the car. Call the tow truck. This MAY have made a difference but I doubt it.

Man - I have been shopping for a boxster - I planned on not buying a 97-99 for this reason. Now I am wondering if I should just pass on a boxster. :(

All cars have issues - did you carfax it and see if a dealer even ever serviced this car?

All and all - very sad news.

Thanks, but I doubt it would have made any difference. There was already some gummy mixture (oil) in the coolant tank when I topped it off as per the dealers instructions. I did not realize what it was at the time of course, figured it was dried coolant or something. This was after having driven a sum total of 8 blocks with only the low coolant indiactor flashing. The dealer also told me at that point that as long as the car wasn't overheating (it was not) I was fine. I drove the few miles home with the check engine light on with that advice in mind. Garaged it for the weekend and called the dealer first thing Monday morning. They told me bring it in on Wednesday. I asked if it was OK to drive in and they said Yes, as long as it doesn't start overheating. Just to be safe I didn't drive in between. It drove fine to the dealer then I got the bad news.

I bought it from an authorized dealer that had serviced it since new. They gave me a carfax that was fine. I have only had it 6 months, but already got it serviced once (the 60,000 mile major inspection) at a closer authorized dealer. Talked to the dealer i bought it from today. Him and his manager looked up the history and admited the service was impecable. They even called the local dealer where it is now and talked to the tech that diagnosed it. He also agreed that with the maintainence history of this vehical it was certainly a production flaw. I hope PCNA agrees.

I've had my check coolant light flash on 2 separate occasions, about 2 weeks apart. I immediately stopped the engine checked the coolant and everything seemed fine. I started the car again and no problems. This happened twice as i said. I don't know what happened but i haven't seen that light flash now for quite awhile.

I know this is different from your situation. I really do feel for you . If this happened to me I dont know what I would do, except cry. I wish i knew why my coolant light flashed those 2 times when everything apparently looks ok. GOOD LUCK to you.

What dealership are you dealing with?

2001saxster, do not get any hopes of PCNA giving you any good-will coverage. Your car is well beyond warranty.

well, if ya need a new engine, go with a used 911 motor conversion... I hear they will fit.. I don't know for sure...

If you have oil in your coolant, then the engine is most likely dead... have them run a compression and leak down test to just make sure... the most likely culprit is a cracked cylinder sleeve... they may tell you its a head gasket, but I from my experience with the problem, no one I can find has had a head gasket go out on a M96

They told me it was a shifted cylinder sleeve actually. Sounds like the same thing to me.

That may be so, but I have no intentions of letting this go without a major fight. If you go back in the boards a ways you will see that this is no isolated incident. A lot of people have had engine failures of a few different types. Porsche really needs to stand behind their product, warranty or not. There is absolutley no reason that in this day an age any car, let alone a $50,000+ performance car should experience an engine failure after only 60,000 miles when it has been properly maintained. So far everyone on the dealer level (the dealer I bought from and the tech at the dealer where it currently sits) agrees that there is nothing that could have possibly been better as far as maintainence goes on this vehical.

Stuff like this
 

Makes we want to steer clear. I can handle increased ticky tacky maintenance requirements and being vigilant with things like belt changes, but I can't handle catastrophic failures.

Your error in logic is assuming that Porsche gives a crap about their customers. I have never seen evidience of such when it comes to warranty coverage.
So the answer to the bolded statement above has been provided, time and time again.

The car is out of warranty. Posche has no obligation to the current car owner.

Please be aware too that if Porsche does extend a "good will" effort to help an owner with a specific problem, whether the car is in warranly or out of warranty, those arrangements are considered confidential between Porsche and the owner. A document is signed as proof.

So I would say that Porsche may (or does) help the customer in some (many) situations, and we are not privied to that information. Something to think about.

Yes, I am aware that the car is "out of warranty." I was responding to the bolded statement. There is plenty of "anecdotal" data on this forum and others that I suggest makes it very clear how Porsche feels about its obligation to its customers.

Can you say RMS and IMS? Design issues that go on for years seem to tell us all we need to know? At least that is my interpretation. Perhaps they are just slow or in denial. That is also possible.

My personal experience and long and candid discussions with the local Porsche service folks lead me to my conclusions.

Having said that, I can't prove anything. The company has all the data and they ain't talking.

:D

PS- My neighbor still talks about her 2004 Boxster grenading on her with 12K on the clock. She can't figure it out and neigther can I. Dealer told me the reason he could fix it in a week is the large number of spare engines shipped to the US for just such an event.

You have my deepest empathy on this one...

I just bought my 98 box last week and have it going in on Monday to repair a leaking coolant tank, get a new clutch and replace a leaking RMS...

Do any of the members on this forum know how common these total engine failures are? I love this car, but these issues are causing me to wonder if this buy was a good idea...

Any thoughts?

From my understanding the cylinder sleeve dis-forming (shifting and etc) was a early engine problem... the cracking is a new problem that has started to come along now that the early 3.4's (from 996), 3.2's and 2.7's are getting up in miles

I wouldn't say this is a big problem, as I would guess a good percentage (25% or so) will get on a message board to tell their story... the M96 engines do die... but a lot of engines die too....

We have no real data on this save the posts. We are not alone, this issue has made the Porsche magazines too, so we know IMS issues still persist.

Only Porsche knows and they are not talking.

As these cars accumulate higher and higher mileage, some different problems are starting to crop up such as cracking of the Cylinder Liners, most often, the #2 and #5 cylinders.

This is thought to occur because the mettalurgy becomes more brittle after long-term heat cycling (or excessive overheating - watch that cooling system, especially cleaning the radiators and insuring your fans operate correctly) and the slight torqueing the engine experiences (a good reason not to ignore the condition of your motor and transmission mounts).

Usually beginning as parallel cracks at the top of the liner, these often join further down the liner. When engine torque is applied, a 'D' shaped chip can break off the top of the liner. Somewhere in this process the integrity of the water jacket goes away allowing coolant to enter the cylinder creating Hydrolock, or allowing the coolant/oil mixture to attack the Main or Rod bearings.

Often this is the cause, but it frequently goes undiscovered because the diagnosis of Engine Replacement is made w/o a total dismantling of the engine and is attributed to other issues such as timing chains etc. which may in fact be secondary failures caused by the bad cylinder liners.

That is bizarre. No my cousin's Lexus SC400 is coming up on 300K miles. Original engine, used only DINO oil and not very good about getting it changed.

Runs like the day she bought it in 1992. I had a SC400 with 180K on it that ran like new also.


Hmmmm.

Sorry for your situation. I had to have a total engine replacement in my 01 as well a few months back. Still fighting with the warranty company over it as a matter of fact.

I would recommend SilverStar Recycling in California, if you are going to buy a used engine. They were great to work with in my situation. I bought a used 3.2 from them.

Good luck!!

Mike

If it was a Subaru motor that had been overboosted I would say to get some Darton sleeves put in the thing and rebuild the bottom end. So why again does everyone buy an entirely new engine for these things? Any reason these things can't just be rebuilt. :confused: :confused: :confused:

As I understand it, Porsche does everything in its power to restrict this kind of action. Not sure how that translates but you rarely find anyone rebuilding these motors (maybe never) or pulling it apart to build a face motor.

The more racing oriented here can chime in on this.

I just visited Roadfly and typed in Blown Boxster engine in the search window.

OH MY GOD.

I am speechless.

:barf:

It seems that there are more parts available for the older air cooled Porsche engines. However, the issue may indeed be the block. Notice the top and bottom end parts but if the alloy block is whacked, what do youi do about that?

I have not come across any sleeving parts and maybe that isn't even doable given the characteristics of the block.

Hmmm.







Porsche 911 Motor Rebuild Kits


Master Motor Rebuild Kits

Motor Meister's Porsche Master Motor Rebuild Kits are for the Porsche owner who wants it all! Which includes all parts and machine work. Our machine shop facility brings you the Porsche expertise that you will need to build your Porsche 911 engine.

You deal with one professional Porsche engine builder and supplier who not only sells the Porsche 911 parts you will need but uses these same parts on their own Porsche engines they build in house and will have the technical support to help you through any questions you may have.

When you buy kits from Motor Meister you are led through the rebuilding process step by step along with free inspections of any part by Lee Marks who will then provide you with advice and knowledge.

California is the motor building capitol for the world for race cars. The balancing company we use balances for Toyota Motorsports (Indianapolis), Honda Motorsports (Grand Prix), Dan Gurney Motorsports (IMSA), and even the Blue Flame (Land Speed record holder). Professionals from our balancing company are friends of Lee Marks (Motor Meister's head mechanic) so they also help in our Porsche needs.

How the Motor Meister's Master Rebuld kit works is, dissasemble your complete 911 Porsche engine (if you get stuck on dissassembly call Motor Meister). Once motor is apart visually inspect everything and if you see any Porsche part that is broken or damaged do NOT throw away, place in bag for Motor Meister can see WHY failure accured.

Once everthing is apart and you have inspected all your Porsche engine parts, take some pictures and right down your Porsche case's engine serial number for future reference.

Instructions for shipping:

· Take ALL Porsche 911 parts and lay them in boxes that can be placed on a pallet or skid. (plastic milk crates work the best)

· Strap down all boxes and parts securely for they will not come off pallet.

Wrap up parts with clear wrap, tarp or anything that will not leave boxes and parts exposed.

Contact Motor Meister and we can pick up shipment that SAME day!

Parts Included

Set Main Bearings
* German Glyco
* STD/STD
* Oversize avaible
Porsche Rod Bearings
* German Glyco
* STD/STD
* Oversize aviable
2 Intermidate Shaft Bearings
* German Glyco
* 1970 and newer includes 2-more
2 Porsche Timing Chains
* German Iwis
* 1-Piece (non-link)
Complete Chain Rails Set
* German Swag
* Turbo Up-Grade
12 Porsche Valve Guides
* Bronze Phos
* Longer lasting
* Better lubrication
* Harder material
* Racing valve guides avaible
12 Porsche Valve Stem Seals
* Teflon Up-Grade
* Longer lasting
Porsche Piston Rings Set
* For Mahle or Kolben Shimdt
* Comes with special break in tips
* Racing Rings
12 Porsche Rod Bolts
* German
* Never re-use, stretch bolts
* Racing Aerospace avaible
12 Connecting Rod Nuts
* German
* Never re-use
* Racing Aerospace avaible
12 Piston Pin Clips
* Factory Porsche
* Never re-use
Porsche Main Seal Front
* German Reinz
Porsche Main Seal Rear
* German Reinz
4 Oil Pump Seals
* German Reinz
#8 O'ring
* German Reinz
8 Oil Return Tube Seals
* Green Viton
* Longer lastings
Oil Pump Lock Tabs Set
* Factory Porsche
* Never re-use
3 Oil Cooler Seals
* German Reinz
2 Camshaft Key Ways
* Factory Porsche
* Never reuse
2 Camshaft Pins
* Factory Porsche
* Never reuse
6 Head Copper Shims
* Different thickness
24 Case O'rings
* German Reinz
2 Upper Valve Cover Gaskets
* German Reinz
2 Lower Valve cover Gaskets
* German Reinz
2 Camshaft End Play Gaskets
* German Reinz
2 Camshaft Plate O'rings
* German Reinz
Oil Thermostat O'ring
* German Reinz
2 Camshaft Housing Gaskets
* German Reinz
Set Crush Washers 6mm Set
* German Wurth
Set Crush Washers 8mm Set
* German Wurth
Set Lock Nuts 6mm
* German Wurth
Set Lock Nuts 8mm
* German Wurth
6 Exhaust Manifold Gaskets
* German Reinz
* Custom Gasket Sizes avaible
6 Intake Gaskets
* German Reinz
Intermidateshaft Gasket
* German Reinz
6 Camshaft Line Seals
* German Reinz
2 Camshaft Housing to Case Gaskets
* German Reinz
2 Camshaft Cover Plate Gaskets
* German Reinz
Oil Breather Gasket
* German Reinz
Distributor Seal
* German Reinz
Misc gaskets, O'rings & seals included
all Reinz made in Germany!
Machine Work Included

6 Porsche Heads
* Dissasembled and Inspected
* Bead blasted
* Valve guides installed
* Valve stem seals installed
* Complete valve job
* Valve spring height adjusted
* Head matting surface inspected
* Deck height checked for proper compression
* Broken exhaust studs removal and time sert $15.00 each
* Spark plug time sert and install $15.00 each
* Porting and Polishing avaible
6 Porsche Pistons & Cylinders
* Clean and Inspect Pistons and Cylinders for correct tolerances
* Compression ratio given
* Polished piston pins
* Polished piston bores
* Piston ring grooves cleaned
* Cylinders Re-Machined
* Cylinders & Pistons prepped for rings and installed for easy installation
* Break-in Instructions and tips
* Raising Compression avaible
2 Porsche Upper Valve Covers
* Checked for warped and cracks
* Machined surfaces
2 Porsche Lower Valve Covers
* Checked for warped and cracks
* Machined surfaces
2 Porsche Chain Housing Covers
* Checked for warpage and cracks
* Machined surfaces
2 Porsche Chain Housings
* Cleaned and Inspected
* Cover matting surface hand prepped
* Case matting surface, resurfaced
* Rear of housings cold welded sealing leaks
2 Porsche Camshafts
* Inspect for camshaft wear or damage
* Measured for lift and duration
* Polished bearing surface
12 Porsche Rockers
* Radius re-surfaced
* Bores polished
12 Porsche Rocker Shafts
* Cleaned
* Polished
2 Camshaft Housings
* Cleaned and Inspected
* Camshaft housings resurfaced
* Camshaft spray bars cleaned and tested
* Valve cover matting surface hand prepped
* Outer camshaft bores polished
2 Camshaft Sprockets
* Inspected for wear
* Cleaned and debured
2 Idler Sprockets
* Inspected for wear
* Cleaned and debured
2 Camshaft Aluminum Cover Plates
* Cleaned and inspected
* Resurfaced
2 Idler Arms
* Cleaned and Inspected
2 Chain Tensioners
* Clean and Inspect
* Test for correct tension
6 Porsche Rods
* Machine big end
* Bores polished
* Check for proper weight and balance
Porsche Crankshaft
* Magnufluxed
* Micropolished
* Checked for straightness
Intermidateshaft and Gear
* Gear inspected for wear
* Gear measured for tolerance
* Shaft bearing wear measured
* Shaft micorppolished
* If need to replace gears & re-install $40.00 extra
Intermidateshaft Cover Plate
* Inspected for cracks
* Cleaned and resurfaced
Porsche Oil Pump
* Ready for installation
* Oil pump dissembled and gears polished and debured
Porsche Engine Case
* Visual inspect Porsche Case
* All bearing saddles prepped
* Line bore measured and inspected
* Case matting surfaces hand resurfaced
* Chain housing matting surface hand resurfaced
* Oil breather matting surface hand resurfaced
* Oil sump matting surface hand resurfaced
* Pistons squirters cleaned and tested
* Intermidate shaft cover plate area hand resurfaced
* Head stud removal available
Porsche Oil cooler
* Pressure Tested & Clean
* Matting surface machined
ALL PARTS SENT IN NEED TO BE CLEANED BEFORE SHIPPING IN!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Prices:

Porsche 2.0 . . . . . . . . . . . $1895
Porsche 2.2 . . . . . . . . . . . $1995
Porsche 2.4 . . . . . . . . . . . $1995
Porsche 2.7 . . . . . . . . . . . $1995
Porsche 3.0 . . . . . . . . . . . $2495
Porsche 3.2 . . . . . . . . . . . $2495
Porsche 3.6 . . . . . . . . . . . $2995
Porsche 3.0 Turbo . . . . . $2995
Porsche 3.3 Turbo . . . . . $2995
Porsche 996 & Boxster Call For Details

Apparently, the issue exists with 911s also
 

If you want an eye-opener, simply Google Boxer engine failures.

Wow, baby!

I own a 1999 C2 996 Manual (3.4 engine) which was originally bought from an Official Porsche Centre in the UK and all services have been carried out by OPCs since.

It has had an engine and transmission replaced already due to internal component failures. It has had the usual leaking RMS problems.

Recently the car went in for its annual service. The car was fine when it left me and but after the service had been carried out and during the final road test I was told that it developed a major engine problem which has subsequently been diagnosed as a big end bearing failure which requires another engine replacement.

The car is now out of warranty and I have been informed by PCGB that because of this and the age and mileage of the car, they will not cover the costs. They have offered to make a contribution, but I’m still facing a very big bill.

There is plenty of information around on forums about the RMS oil leaks and engine failures due to liners cracking and bearings breaking up in 996s and Boxsters. Transmissions also seem to be a problem. Some owners have received 'goodwill' FOC replacements and others have been left to pick up the bill. Is this just a case of who shouts loudest or complains the most gets the goodwill and rest are left to find more money to pour into a car which has already depreciated more than any almost any other Porsche model in history?

I do not want to be a cause of further depreciation but isn’t it about time something was done about this situation? If the number of failures occurring is a small percentage then it would be in Porsche’s interest to simply replace them FOC and keep their customers happy. If it is such a big issue that they don’t want to spend the money doing this, we all should be made aware.

A few people in the past have tried to gather information, set up websites etc. to bring this out into the open but don’t seem to have got very far. I would like to do something not just to sort out my own situation but also to help all 996 and Boxster owners, past and present, receive fair treatment from Porsche.

To start with I'd like to hear your stories, good and bad. So if you've suffered an engine or transmission failure with your 996 or Boxster, please let me know the VIN/chassis number, year, model and mileage when it happened, description of fault/failure and what the result was (warranty replacement, goodwill replacement, contribution or no help given).

Please post here or e-mail me privately:

mrphish@dial.pipex.com

All personal information will be treated in the strictest confidence. No names or e-mail addresses will be released to anyone without the consent of the contributor.

Please feel free to copy or e-mail this post to anyone you know who has had engine or transmission failures and help get the truth out in the open.

It does require quite a few special tools. While there don't seem to be many rebuilders here in the states, a brit firm called Autofarm does quite a job rebuilding them and in fact making them better - http://www.autofarm.co.uk/

Can anyone help me out with these codes?
 

Yesterday i received the maintainence history of my vehical which was sent to me from the dealer I bought it from. This is basically the cars history from before I bought it. Does anyone know what the following mean and if they might have any bearing on or been an indication of future engine failure?

13poz engine elictrical
14pozce check engine light (2 times within 1 week this appears)
22poz driveshaft/diff
11poz engine repair mi

I am particularly interested in the last two because they happened one month (or less) prior to me purchasing the vehical. I think maybe the very last one was done after the vehical was traded in because there is also a line for buyers guide and detailing, but none for a loaner car. Again, any help would be very much appreciated. I as told the car was tip top with no past problems.

If anyone is to decipher what could have been related to your failure, we would need to know the specifics of that repair.

So where are these re-manufactured engines the dealers are selling coming from then? It sounds to me like Porsche's policy is to recommend replacement for any engine problem (even if a full dignosis can't be made because they don't want to fully inspect it), then send that engine back to the factory to be rebuilt for the next unlucky Porsche driver to buy for another $10,000. They are probably making a good buck doing after warranty replacements on their faulty design.

The dealers source them from Porsche Germany. They are essentially new engines, with the reuse of some external parts, like injectors, intake and exhaust. Those parts are remanunfactured.