why has the Boxster less power than a 996?
 

So I figured I start one of these completely useless discussions :rolleyes:

So here's the question:

My 2002 Box S makes 250 hp from 3.2L that is 78.2 hp / liter
A 2002 Carrera makes 295 hp from the same engine with 3.4L that is 86.8 hp / liter that is 11% more !

How did Porsche do that and is there a way for us to do it too :)

I am not sure, but I would image that there motivation is to keep people paying more for the 996. Why would anybody buy a 996 over a Boxster if they had the same HP and the Boxster was about $30k less?
:cheers:

I think what he's getting at is how to mod a boxster S to make similar horsepower in the same way that porsche OEM does.

I'm no engineering genius, but the extra power can come from various different engine components. Cams with a more aggresive lift & duration, larger valve size in the heads, better air/fuel flow through the intake manifold the list can be quite extensive.

yep, that's what I meant ;-)

Engine swap. Enough said. :p

No hes trying to compare the two engines...

Obviously, there's the .2 liter displacement difference. That means the Carerra engine is physically larger (bore size anyway). As a general rule it's easier to generate more power from a larger engine.

I think an interesting question would be what parts do the 2 engines share? Probably not many. I don't have extensive knowledge of the engines, but I would venture a guess that the main thing they do share is configuration (flat 6).

Though not as extreme, it's kinda like comparing a I4 in a Civic (1.8L 140hp) to I4 in an S2000 (2.2L 237hp). Anyone disagree?

Better yet compare the 1.8L Civic engine with the 1.8L Integra Type R engine. The Civic produced 140HP the Integra 195HP. How, you might ask? Higher compression, two stage cams (Honda calls it VTEC), bigger injectors, bigger valves, bigger throttle body, freer flowing intake (less silencing) freer flowing, wider diameter exhaust, costly oil piston sprayers, port matched and polished heads, stronger block construction.

Porsche used all the same tricks to make the 996 more powerful than the 986. Those tricks cost money, but as someone pointed out, not $30K. The fact is that Porsche does spend more making a 996 than a 986 but not really enough to justify the price difference. They could easily make the 986 more powerful but that would just undercut 996 sales (same for 997 / 987).

The fact is that you could not add 996 parts to the 986 motor and reproduce the HP difference. But even if you could the cost would be far higher than doing a motor swap and the chances of the motor grenading from the changes would be high.

Regards,
alan

Porsche's strategy on engines and pricing has been clear for many years, many models.

Face it, they do NOT want to give the aftermarket owner and world any ability to mod their engines and make any money doing it. They have all kinds of ways of doing this and technology has helped them keep this little market to themselves.

BMW has done much the same thing.

If you like to get at an engine and mod it to death, the Porsche route is a road to frustration. Compare that to a Chevy V8. You can go on the Mr. Goodwrench engine site and shop away.

I am not suggesting that Porsche should do this. To their way of thinking, they are doing what is good for them and perhaps their customers.

So, good luck on converting in some sense, a box engine to a 911 engine.

BTW-If you want to give your Porsche parts guy a heart attack, ask him about a engine conversion. :D

If you have room for a Chevy V8, take a look! :cheers:

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The Boxster is just a much better pure sportscar so it doesn't need the HP. :) It is a little giant killer in the tradition of the late 50's early 60's racing P cars.

So, hypothetically, if you were to swap out engines for a 996's, how would the other components of the Boxster hold up to the additional HP? Would the tranny, clutch, driveline, etc take the added strain?

You are kidding, right?
:D

I've never really thought that making the Boxster less powerful really helped Porsche as much as they think it did/does.

Someone who wants a car with only two seats is going to buy whatever Porsche is offering. Power is not the motivation for opting away from a Carrera. By and large most people are unwilling to pay at the high end for roadster. So unless they are saving themselves a ton of money by watering down the 996 egine which kind of runs contrary to economies of scale, then the only reason they do put less powerful engines in Boxsters is to give Carrera owners the impression that they've stepped up into something more powerful. It's the Porsche way, they're always trying to get you think you're current Porsche isn't the best Porsche you can own and that you need to go and buy a bigger more expensive one. It all culminates when you've bought three different Porsches and spent enough to buy a Ferrari. This is like a poser's mentality. A true sports car driver will buy a roadster if he wants a roadster, a GT3 if he wants a track toy or a C4S if he wants plush all year GT. I don't think anyone buys any of three primarily on the basis of power.

I bought the 986 instead of a 996 because I like the 986's lines better than the 996.

The C2 and C4 are too plain looking for my taste.
I feel as if they need the aero kits to look right.

I rented a C2 Cab, one year in Scotsdale AZ and drove to Vegas in it. The 996's in my opinion are better cars than the 986. And, the 996's are worth the premium they demand.

Porsche leaves the power down on the Boxsters simply for marketing reasons.

Would you want a C2 Cab with 350 hp or a Boxster Super S with 350hp??

I would say for the most part, Yes. There are alot of people on this board alone that have turbo'd or superchared their cars and the driveline stuff has held up.

It's called de-tunning and has been around since PT Barnum. Every manufacturer does it (that Intel box in front of you included). There may be a little more expensive metallurgy for strength in a 3.4, but he engineerings is already there ripe for the picking. No added cost there.

It also doesn't cost $30k to change the plumbing contortions and make the pistons and valves a wee bit bigger. Again, the engineerings done.

You can ring 300+hp out of a stock Box. motor, but it gets a bit messy and porsche makes it hard (fun though). A Box motor runs stock at a very modest “bang (hp) per liter” ...down there with a Miata.

Regards, PK

The later 986s interiors front end materials are almost indistinguishable from the 996s. From the seats forward its basically the same car. I can't think of two sports cars that share as many parts as the 986 and 996. Look at the part numbers on the Boxsters and you'll see they mostly start with the 996 prefix. If you look underneath the Cayman there plenty of 987 and 997 serial numbers in there as well.
There's not much of a premium for 996's over Boxsters lately...well if you've looked at the resale prices lately.
On my morning commutte I pass these two used Euro car dealers that have been selling the same two 996's for nearly four months now. I almost feel sad dor the Carreras.

I agree that it is largely marketing. Porsche will not allow anything to usurp the 911 in their lineup and if they put the 911 motor in the Boxster/Cayman it would most certainly give many potential customers something to think about.

My father in law is a 911 guy. He owns 4 of them, including the almighty Turbo, so I've had ample opportunity to compare and contrast the real-world driving dynamics of the cars and I genuinely believe that a Boxster with the same raw power as the 911 would easily outperform it. On stretches of mountain switchback I have no trouble staying with the 911's - they outpower me (to a rediculous extent) on straights, but the little Boxster owns them in the corners, and we arrive at destination together.

^ I think allot of people forget that the little Boxster even at 3.2 is not at all underpowered as far as Porsches go.... A VTEC Honda today has more power than most of the 911's of the past, even going back just 10 or 12 years.

Just my opinion but a boxster with 250~295 HP is PLENTY powerful enough.Try taking your car out on the highway and really stretch it's legs and see how fast a cop rides up your butt. Boxsters ( I live in the winding roads of Virginia ) own turns and corners ! That's why I bought my car ( 201 HP ) because when it comes to cornering on the twisties a boxster can't be easily beaten . I'm more than satisfied.

^ I agree. Mine is also 201 HP, and it is more than enough for daily driving, for outrunning anyone in the twisties, and for autocrossing. If you want to go fast in a straight line, this isn't the car to get. :cheers:

HP of base 911's

(1973-77) 911 150 HP (2.7 RS 210 HP)
(1977-83) 911 180 HP
(1983-89) 911 207 HP
(1989-93) 964 264 HP (3.8 RS 300 HP)
(1993-97) 993 272 HP (3.8 RS 300 HP)
(1997-01) 996 300 (2002-04) 320 HP
997 325 HP

so really if you get yourself one of those 3.4 Boxsters you've basically got more or the same amount of power and better handling as most of the 911's ever made so far. That's how Porsche make all their dough, upselling you to a CarreraS, Then a GT3, a Turbo, then a TurboS, followed by a GT2 until you're sitting in one Penske's Spyders.

As I have said before, I prefer the Box over the 911s I have had, even the Turbo.

The car is just plain satisfying in every way.

Not that 325 HP wouldn't be a nice addition.

Frankly, I would be happier if Porsche hired someone from Lexus to work on reliability and dealer attitude.

:)

i'll go for a 86 over a 96 anyday, the lines of the car are soooo right, they are just one beautiful car!!! the early ones have the most pure design imo.