Need help deciding on two Boxsters
 

I have been looking to buy a used Boxster for a while. I have narrowed it down to two different cars. I need some help deciding which of these two to buy.

2001 Boxster S 6,000 miles Tiptronic Porsche Cert Silver $40,000
2001 Boxster S 11,000 miles 6 Speed Black $37,000

I am looking at the Tiptronic because I have never driven a manual transmission before. However, I would like to learn and understand that this is probably the best way to go if I buy a Boxster. I was wondering is if there's much of a diffrence between the Tiptronic and manual cars. I test drove a 2000 Boxster S Tiptronic and it seemed kind of sluggish. Would the 6 speed perform better in terms of acceleration? Since I'm a total rookie at driving a 6 speed I'm not sure I'll have a good feel for the car. I don't have much of a chance to practice beforehand as I need to act fast if I want to buy the 6 speed Boxster. Based on the above which car would you buy? Please note the prices on the two cars may be negotiable as I haven't gotten to the discussion on that part yet.
Thanks in advance for any opinions.

Get the 6 speed in my opinon I have driven both and the 6 speed is faster plus you are driving sports car
Automon

Where are you looking?
Those prices seem a tad high for an 01.

The Porsche Boxster as the name implies is a sports car. 6 speed on that baby. There is no other answer. Regarding the price check it out and satisfy your self that is fair. Good luck on your eventual selection.

Excuse me for a moment while I climb up on my soap box.
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ANYBODY THAT BUYS A LATE MODEL CAR WITH ANYTHING BUT AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION IS FREAKING NUTS. En you utz, nuts.
That includes the Boxster, the ultimate sports car.
Why anyone would want to row a car, any car, through the traffic of a metropolitan area with a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission is something I simply cannot fathom. For an aerobic workout, maybe, but that's it. The Tipper in a Boxster makes driving fun again, even in traffic as thick as the hair on a dog's back.
Many people observe, as you did, that a Tipper-equipped Boxster feels sluggish. It does...but that's because unless you shift it into manual mode and specifically downshift to 1st, it starts out in 2ND GEAR!
Put that booger in 1st and mash the go pedal and it will come out of the hole like a scalded cat, probably shifting itself into second at about 6,300 before you can even punch the upshift button.
Is there a performance difference between the manual and the Tip? Absolutely, and undeniably. It's about a half-second 0 to 60, and factory quoted top speed of a 2.5 Boxster is 149 for the manual and 146 for the Tip. The last time I exceeded 140 mph on the highway was, well, gee...never.

My over-the-top comments aside, I would urge you not to sell the Tiptronic short, and don't be swayed by the stick-only bigots. If you like/want/need a car with an automatic transmission, the Tiptronic is one of the best on the market. Porsche engineers themselves say it is their best and most reliable transmission.
One other thing. The best selling version of the 911 is the Cabriolet with a Tiptronic.
Ronzi
'99 Boxster (Tiptronic)
Speed Yellow/Black

Wow....talk about possibly waging a war...

It's not difficult to "row" through traffic. When I'm casually driving around town I don't even realize I'm shifting. It's just a natural thing, even when stuck in traffic.

For autocrossing...I will only drive a manual or SMG type transmission. (Granted I haven't autocrossed the Porsche yet, but I intend to.) You can rev the engine to get a better a start off the line. You can leave it in gear as you're blasting through a slalom or making your way around a tight series of turns. I don't need something up-shifting (which most tip-tronics do to prevent you from hitting the rev-limiter) forcing me to lose time in an unnecessary down-shift later.

It all comes down to what you're going to do with the car. If you're going to boulevard cruise it, get the tippie, but if you're going to drive it, get the 6.

As for the prices. It depends on the options. I paid $36,750 for a 2001 S. I had the Sport Design Package (arctic silver accents all throughout the car) sport seats, litronic headlights and an extended warranty with no deductible through Oct. 2007. (The manufacturers warranty through Oct 2004.) The car was in mint condition and only had 17,000 miles. It had brand new tires and was always dealer serviced. According to KBB this was $750 under private party for my options. I bought 2 mos ago.

Just for reference. So depending on what's on the two cars, the prices may be fair or they maybe high. If you get the VIN number you can call the dealer to find out what options the car came with.

That's because of all the women buying them!

Bottom line, a sports car needs to have a clutch or it's just a cruiser!

Porsche is actually very concerned that the C2 Cabbie with Tiptronic is their best selling 911. Basically, it is the slowest and least performing of the lot.

As far as manual/tip I find the Boxster manual as one of the best manuals for bumper to bumper I have ever driven. Just slow down, take your feet off all the pedals and the car muddles along at 5 mph with out any driver input. It will not stall unless you hit the break.

When I bought my boxster I could never imagine owning a Porsche without a stick. After 3 years of owning this wonderful car and Denver's traffic problem I will be going for the trip if I get another. The times that I actually get crazy behind the wheel are rare now and I think I am just getting lazy and fat at all of 29 years old- LOL!

15 years of driving. 4 cars. No automatic transmissions. I'm shopping for a winter car right now. The only criteria is a manual gearbox.

I started driving sticks in a VW bug in 68. I graduated to Audis in 74 Fox until my last Audi a 2001 S-4. During all this time I've driving the NY City metropolitan area in traffic jams through all types of storms, blizzards etc with my stick shift. With the stick you have more control of the car in all types of weather. I don't abuse the clutch and the proof is that a 1988 Audi 90Q which I drove with the original clutch for 163,000 city miles. Stick is the only way for me and even more so in a Boxster which is a sports car.

If there are an inordinate number of women buying Porsches, they're buying Boxsters, not 911s. All you have to do is read some of the posts on other Porsche web sites, where Boxsters are referred to as chick wagons, wimpmobiles, and worse, to come to that conclusion. Apologies to leJolierogue and LoveBunny, I mean no disrespect.
I seriously doubt that Porsche is "concerned" about their best selling 911 having an automatic transmission. They are more likely to be rubbing their hands together and scheming a way to jack up the price premium for the Tipper to more than the exhorbitant three grand or so that it is already.
My real point in all this is to argue that the prospective purchaser should look at their (real) needs and desires and purchase a car that fills those needs. If a Tiptronic car is appropriate, get one, and don't feel that you have somehow compromised the character of the car, because in my opinion, that is not so.
My first car was a XK150 Jag, and I have had I don't know how many sports cars since then, all of them except for the Box with manual transmission. I like the Box the best of the lot, and a good part of that is the Tipper.
Ronzi
'99 Boxster Tip
Speed Yellow/Black

Originally posted by QporscheQ [/i]
Porsche is actually very concerned that the C2 Cabbie with Tiptronic is their best selling 911. Basically, it is the slowest and least performing of the lot.[/QUOTE]


^That is because far to many people that buy 911s/boxsters don't even ever stand on the gas or drive it like it's meant to be driven. They just like to look pretty while they cruise in their status symbol over to the local starbucks.











Originally posted by QporscheQ [/i]
[
As far as manual/tip I find the Boxster manual as one of the best manuals for bumper to bumper I have ever driven. Just slow down, take your feet off all the pedals and the car muddles along at 5 mph with out any driver input. It will not stall unless you hit the break.


My car stalls if you don't give some gas I believe. Most people that try out my car stall it.

I've driven neither nor do I own either (obviously) yet. I wouldn't even consider the tip. If I wanted an automatic, I'd buy another sedan. A Porsche was meant to be a stick. I drove a 944 with a standard transmission for a while. To be honest it was not the easiest of sticks to drive because it had such a light clutch. My brother tried to take his driving test in it and failed becuase of "unsmooth shifting." however I let a friend drive it who had a license and a 5-speed VW and killed it five times at a light. (I woudln't have let her drive it I hadn't been really ill at the time.) Anyway, I'm not going to tell anyone not to like what they like. If you want an auto, get one. But if you are on the fence, I think it's a shame to drive a car that is mean to be really DRIVEN with an auto. It just takes the whole experience out of driving. All that being said, if you do buy the stick, I'd rent one or something before you try it on your Porsche to learn. Or shoot, even buy a junker for cheap and learn and get rid of it. I don't know, it's been so long since I learned how and when I did I was also learning to drive, so maybe it's not as bad when you already know how. Good luck on whatever you choose though. I'm envious becuase I have still a while to wait before I can buy one and am stuck with my Ford Explorer for a couple more years. :(

I seem to be outnumbered.
However, that is often the lot of the true visionary, destined to be a voice crying in the wilderness, waiting for the feds to outlaw manual transmissions entirely and mandating computer controlled upshifts, downshifts or no-shifts, depending on what will most closely render the emissions as pure as baby's breath.
Enjoy your hideous stick-shifts while you can!
Ronzi

PS - Why do all F1 cars have automatic transmissions?

"PS - Why do all F1 cars have automatic transmissions?"

There are no F1 cars with automatic transmissions. They are all manual transmissions with a hydraulical cylinder replacing the driver's left foot, sequential gear changes, and software controlled rev matching. The big difference, among many, is no power robbing torque converter.

There is talk in the FIA about returning to a non-sequential gearbox, which would put the honus of smooth gear work back on the driver where it belongs.

Perhaps your simple lack of knowledge on this subject reveals a broader lack of knowledge that could explain your misguided attempt to change people's minds about what is a personal preference.

First time I have seen a debate over transmissions. Usually the usual subjects like oil and tire pressure.

Lots of Porsches in Silicon Valley where I live. We have 986/996/turbo owners I know with tips. And they are owned by men. All the women owners I know have manual transmissions.

Get the tip if that is what you like. It is just a hair slower. Sometimes I wish I had one in my bumper-to-bumper morning comute. Plus, I would not want to learn how to drive a manual in a Boxster.

Coming from Europe, it's very different view I guess, since here manual equips most of the Porsches (not to talk vast majority of cars anyway) and talking to dealers, Tiptros are much difficult to resell. Most of the cars they sell are manual...The only automatic transmission I liked was the SMGII on the E46 M3, and that's because it's not automatic. To me their'd be a discussion manual vs. robotized (similar to F1 as atomichead described) if Porsche had one, but manual vs. tiptro...hmmh...a complete no brainer. If I want to use the full potential of this engine on Switzerland twistie roads, be able to resell it more easily and of course practice heel and toe :-) , then manual is the way. On top of that i think their gearbox is very precise for a cable driven one. Coming from BMW world, which is more direct (no cables), and very precise too, this was a big surprise...so why not have the best stick there is (or close to it)...

From the autoweb article on the new boxster (987), there will be a 3rd choice :-)

Power for the revamped Boxster comes from two lightly reworked horizontally opposed engines—the existing 2.7-liter and 3.2-liter units each gaining around 10 hp and a considerable boost in low-end torque. An optional six-speed Tiptronic with steering wheel-mounted shift buttons will join a carryover six-speed manual. The double-clutch unit coming on the new 911 should be offered later on the Boxster, according to Porsche insiders.

I knew someone would deny that F1 cars have automatic transmissions.
A debate about the character of F1 trannies belongs on a F1 discussion group, not necessarily here, and I brought the subject up of course to point out that the most technically advanced vehicles on the planet have transmissions that do not depend on the driver depressing a pedal and wiggling a stick on the floor to change gears.
Prior to this season, the driver did not even have to flip the paddles, the transmission would shift up and down by itself under the control of an on-board computer, without action on the driver's part. My admittedly simple mind tells me that is an "automatic transmission". Not necessarily a torque converter automatic transmission I grant, but an automatic transmission nonetheless.
The Porsche Tiptronic transmission upshifts and downshifts by itself, under the control of an on-board computer. Egad!
This whole thing started because a prospective Boxster purchaser asked for help in deciding between two cars, one a Tiptronic and one a 6-speed. Said purchaser indicated an unfamiliarity with manual transmissions. Nevertheless, the recommendation from respondents was to get the 6-speed, and the reasons given for that recommendation had more to do with their own idea of what a "sports car" is than any objective evaluation of the needs of the purchaser.
My contrarian position was, and is, that if you want a Tip, get a Tip.
Ronzi

Said purchaser indicated an unfamiliarity with manual transmissions. => I don't know ANYBODY like that in Europe :-) As I said, it's also cultural difference. And back to technically, you can't compare tiptro and F1 or rally car gearboxes.
Anyway, Walter Rorhl (Porsche famous test driver) comments badly on Porsche gearboxes. He too cannot understand they only have manual and this tiptro and not a DSG or F1 style one. But as I pointed too in the post just above one, Porsche is finally working on one...

But this is digression on the original post :-)
This is a whole different than choosing between 2 boxs!

Give Porsche credit in that the race circuit is their testing ground and they do not as a rule release upon us components that haven't repeatedly proven their worth in this arena. They are doing that right now with a sequential gearbox in the 911 GT3 RSR.

If Porsche still participanted in F1 we no doubt would have already had a choice of the sequential gearbox for our street cars.

As far as the original post, we can all give our opinions, for whatever they're worth, but in the end you really need to try both and decide what's right for you. My opinion is either way you can't lose. Good luck.

If I recall correctly, Porsche gave the world its' first semiautomatic gearbox in the PDK box fitted to the factory Porsche 962s in the late eighties.. The Tiptronic is from my limited knowlege of transmission mechanicals, not the same thing.

Also (not to belabor the point that this isn't a thread about F1 transmissions) automatic downshifts in F1 have been banned for several years. Automatic upshifts I believe were legal until last season.

And as cool as the Ferrari F1 and BMW SMGs are, I think I'd probably still prefer a slick shifting manual box in my Boxster.

Sorry - but not entirely correct:

Volkswagen had a semi-automatic back in 1968. I know my family had one...

Scott

Porsche had an automatic way back in the 911 called a Sportomatic. Many of the car magazines of the time enjoyed the performance of the car with this transmission.

I have to agree with Ronzi's posts on the Tip. It isn't the anti-christ - it's a viable way to move your Porsche around. I have had a 98 Tip Boxster, a 57 356 Speedster 4 speed manual, an 03 911 C2 Cab 6 speed, and now an 03 Boxster S Tip over the last four years. The 356 had a progressive clutch and was easy to drive around town. The 911 had a heavy clutch and was a bear in around town traffic as the clutch needed a rev blip to settle into gear and go without stalling. If I only lived in the country or on a race track, the 6 speed was fine. It was not second nature in heavy traffic and never would be. With SUV drivers pulling up to within an inch of you on every stop, you couldn't just be lazy with the clutch and let it slip a little to engage. I don't miss the 6 speed one bit. Different strokes for different folks. I'm sorry if some people feel that a 5 or 6 speed only equals a sports car. A sports car is about handling, steering feedback, carving a line, and many other things. Matching revs on down shifts is slick, but it isn't the only thing in the sports car portfolio. A lot of people have manual transmissions in Hondas and Toyotas and most of those will still be boring sedans at the end of the day, despite the hallowed manual transmission. Enjoy your choice, I'm enjoying mine with the Tip and don't buy the manual tranny argument :matchup:

I personally don't drive in traffic with the boxst. See below...and THERE you DON'T WANT a Tip... :-)

That road looks nice! Do you have raods with no speed limits in Switzerland?

Well, I was in the same situation when I bought my boxster (a 2000 S) a couple of months ago. I had never driven a stick before. But, like alot of people on here, I felt that if I was going to buy a sports car I should be able to control it like a sports car, not let it control me. I had opportunities to get a tip (and some really good deals too), but I held out for a manual. And I have to tell you that the first couple of weeks I was terrified every time I drove it. But it soon becomes second nature. It was supposed to be my nights and weekend car but I now drive it all the time (unless I need to haul something or I have my dogs in the car in which case I still have my boring subie automatic). Even in rush hour it is fun to drive. And it makes me pay attention while I am driving, unlikethe cell calling, DVD watching drivers of behemoth SUV's and minivans (any escalade drivers out there care to fess up?). To me, the reason I bought this car is to DRIVE it. And part of the fun of driving it is shifting. If I wanted something where the driving was transparent I wouldn't have bought this car.

no, but Germany isn't far :-) but that's only on the highway, and what's the fun driving fast on the highway? push it to 160mph? I have more fun in the curves of mountain roads where i frequently push it to 110-120mph then brake for the turn and so on...we have amazing roads here...never stops to turn...My sister's husband is from the US, and when he got to see our roads he was just amazed how many curves, hairpins, ups and downs we have :-) The trick is to take a day off in the middle of the week to have a clear road :-)

Hello. I'm a newbie. Decided to join in just because of the discussion concerning transmission :) I race cars so I'd like to try clear something up as well as make suggestions. Hope y'all don't mind! The only tiptronic I've driven is on a 911. Everything else is strictly manual. ECWFAN, since you said you want to start learning, now is the time :) It's not rocket science.. Once you get use to it, you don't even have to think. Heck, my legs and hand move automatically it seems. Driving in traffic... Well, you know, that car can crawl in 2nd gear with barely a press on the pedal. Once you get to know you car well enough, it'll be a breeze. Besides, the clutch doesn't require strong legs to begin with. I have driven a manual 2 weeks out of knee surgery. One thing though, I noticed with many manual transmission drivers, is that they tend to overdo the shifting. That is to say, some people shift for no good reason (I do that to, just for the fun of it!) Well, IMHO, after 14 years of professional and leisure driving, if you want pure driving fun, go with the stick shift. If you want to race, get a car with paddle shifters. If you want to fiddle with the radio constantly as you drive, while balancing your coke can with the other hand and chatting with your partner on the phone (Of course I don't encourage any of these actions while driving) then get the tiptronic. It does not feel the same as real manual shifting. Not even close. Look at the torque graphs and you can already tell the difference. As to the disagreement....F1 paddle shift is NOT automatic. It's called a sequential manual transmission. The only difference with an H-gate manual transmission is the shape of the gear & arrangement of rods. You still have to shift up and down, the shifter wouldn't do it for you. Tiptronic is automatic. The difference is in gear ratios, and who decides to change gear :) The main reason we use paddle shifters on race cars is... time. We also like to keep both hands on the wheel. It's simply quicker. When racing, the last thing you'd want to think about is what gear you're in! Besides, I wouldn't want to miss a gear on downshifts! Ronzi, I'm sorry but real paddle shifters will not shift unless you tell it to. The transmission doesn't decide for you. The only electronics in there is the solenoid that connects the paddle to the hydraulics actuating the gearbox. We also use straight line sequential shifters. Tiptronic is fully automatic, regardless of what some people say. It shifts slower, and like the others pointed out, comes with a torque converter. As hard as I tried, I couldn't redline that tiptronic on that 911. What fun is that?

...agree, tip definitely castrates the engine... :-) Besides the manual gearbox of the boxster is amongst the best...
Jack, what sort of cars do you race?